- mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: DDoS Identification / Mitigation

by Andrew Hoyos

We’ve had great luck with Kentik (https://www.kentik.com/) as a general netflow tool to at least identity DDoS sources/targets (not to mention a very well rounded tool for analyzing flow data coupled with BGP info/sankey diagrams, as well). From a mitigation perspective, hopefully your upstream providers support D/RTBH at a minimum. If they don’t, vote with your wallet and go somewhere that does. Set up your IBGP mesh with a blackhole community and local null routing, with respective policies and communities on your transit edges matching their blackhole communities. In theory, you should be able to add a null route anywhere in your ibgp mesh, and have network wide black holing that also triggers upstream blackholing as well. Ideally, you’d have some sort of standalone trigger router with OOB access that you can use to originate those routes into BGP. Bonus points for automating that process, or giving tech actionable alert to copy/paste into a router. -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com > On Jul 30, 2016, at 4:35 PM, Dave Williams <Dave(a)revnetdata.com> wrote: > > Hi all – I know this isn’t a MICE specific question, but I can’t think of a better group of people to ask! I was wondering if anyone could share their strategy for DDoS detection and mitigation? We randomly have troubles with it and as you can imagine it’s quite the pain! > Thanks in advance! > d > > Dave Williams > Founder / Visionary > Revelation Network Management, Inc. > O: 763.367.6161 > C: 763.670.5558 > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

Aug. 1, 2016

Re: DDoS Identification / Mitigation

by Dave Williams

Steve - that looks like a great thing to start with! Thanks! Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> Date: 7/30/16 10:18 PM (GMT-06:00) To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] DDoS Identification / Mitigation This isn't exactly a detection/mitigation solution, but we use the CYMRU UTRS service to help us reduce our share of the problem: http://www.team-cymru.org/UTRS/ https://www.cymru.com/jtk/misc/utrs.html I encourage everyone to check it out. It's free, and as more organizations participate it becomes more effective. On Jul 30, 2016, at 15:35, Dave Williams <dave(a)REVNETDATA.COM<mailto:dave@revnetdata.com>> wrote: Hi all – I know this isn’t a MICE specific question, but I can’t think of a better group of people to ask! I was wondering if anyone could share their strategy for DDoS detection and mitigation? We randomly have troubles with it and as you can imagine it’s quite the pain! Thanks in advance! d Dave Williams Founder / Visionary Revelation Network Management, Inc. O: 763.367.6161 C: 763.670.5558 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Aug. 1, 2016

Re: DDoS Identification / Mitigation

by Mike Horwath

On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 11:05:48PM -0500, Brady Kittel wrote: > I worked at a shop for a while that used Arbor networks solution > with good success. From what I recall it requires the upstream > carrier to support it so you'd have to see if yours do. I replied offlist to the OP. There are so many ways to operate denial of service attacks. Some of them are bandwidth eating (ICMP, SYN, UDP flooding), some of them attack the assets (HTTP slow accept, high fake query/request, etc). Each of these needs a slightly different approach. Arbor Networks works quite well if both ends have it - very true and also very, very expensive. F5 has stuff built in to protect assets but also can be very expensive. Fortigate firewalls have some decent stuff in them for relegating throughput and dropping bad traffic at the edge but will require some tuning. IPS/IDS is quite good as well. But once the traffic is at your edge, and the attack is to burn your bandwidth, you've already lost. But if application attacks are going on then FGT can help. CloudFlare moves the endpoint into their network and have come a long way since I first learned of them. Think of it as a reverse proxy for HTTP-type termination and your global DNS server. There are so many things that can help mitigate depending on the type of attack - that needs to be determined :) -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG

July 31, 2016

Re: DDoS Identification / Mitigation

by Brady Kittel

I worked at a shop for a while that used Arbor networks solution with good success. From what I recall it requires the upstream carrier to support it so you'd have to see if yours do. On Jul 30, 2016 4:35 PM, "Dave Williams" <dave(a)revnetdata.com> wrote: > Hi all – I know this isn’t a MICE specific question, but I can’t think of > a better group of people to ask! I was wondering if anyone could share > their strategy for DDoS detection and mitigation? We randomly have > troubles with it and as you can imagine it’s quite the pain! > > Thanks in advance! > > d > > > > Dave Williams > > Founder / Visionary > > Revelation Network Management, Inc. > > O: 763.367.6161 > > C: 763.670.5558 > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

July 31, 2016

Re: DDoS Identification / Mitigation

by Steve Howard

This isn't exactly a detection/mitigation solution, but we use the CYMRU UTRS service to help us reduce our share of the problem: http://www.team-cymru.org/UTRS/ https://www.cymru.com/jtk/misc/utrs.html I encourage everyone to check it out. It's free, and as more organizations participate it becomes more effective. > On Jul 30, 2016, at 15:35, Dave Williams <dave(a)REVNETDATA.COM> wrote: > > Hi all – I know this isn’t a MICE specific question, but I can’t think of a better group of people to ask! I was wondering if anyone could share their strategy for DDoS detection and mitigation? We randomly have troubles with it and as you can imagine it’s quite the pain! > Thanks in advance! > d > > Dave Williams > Founder / Visionary > Revelation Network Management, Inc. > O: 763.367.6161 > C: 763.670.5558 > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 31, 2016

DDoS Identification / Mitigation

by Dave Williams

Hi all - I know this isn't a MICE specific question, but I can't think of a better group of people to ask! I was wondering if anyone could share their strategy for DDoS detection and mitigation? We randomly have troubles with it and as you can imagine it's quite the pain! Thanks in advance! d Dave Williams Founder / Visionary Revelation Network Management, Inc. O: 763.367.6161 C: 763.670.5558

July 30, 2016

LTD Broadband 2nd port

by Jason Hanke

LTD Broadband is adding a second MICE connection on the main switch. Their connection on the NP Remote switch will remain. Port: xe-2/0/4 IPv4: 206.108.255.42/24 IPv6: 2001:504:27:0:6:045A::2/64 ASN: 394330 Contact: corey.hauer(a)ltdbroadband.com They will need route server config for this port as well. These ports will NOT be in a LAG group. Welcome Aboard (again)! -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

July 30, 2016

Re: State of MN DNS Issues

by Frank Bulk

Doesn't seem happy: http://dnsviz.net/d/state.mn.us/dnssec/ Frank -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 6:53 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] State of MN DNS Issues On 07/19/2016 03:42 AM, Richard Laager wrote: > FYI: state.mn.us DNS has broken DNSSEC and broken IPv6. I called > yesterday, and they were aware of the DNSSEC issue. The state says it's good, and it looks good from my perspective again. -- Richard

July 20, 2016

Re: State of MN DNS Issues

by Richard Laager

On 07/19/2016 03:42 AM, Richard Laager wrote: > FYI: state.mn.us DNS has broken DNSSEC and broken IPv6. I called > yesterday, and they were aware of the DNSSEC issue. The state says it's good, and it looks good from my perspective again. -- Richard

July 19, 2016

Fwd: [JPTECHS] Fwd: [MICE-DISCUSS] State of MN DNS Issues

by David Farmer

I forwarded this off to the guys at the state, here is a response. Thanks ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Reilly, Russ (MNIT) <russ.reilly(a)state.mn.us> Date: Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 9:19 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [MICE-DISCUSS] State of MN DNS Issues Thanks, we are aware of some complaints and working the issue. Something possibly related to how IPv6 was enable on the Infoblox and the various addresses. Comcast was broke Saturday and we got that fixed so it seems there are just oddities in various resolvers we are working through this with Infoblox. *Russ Reilly* | Network Support, network Support Manager MN.IT Services, State of Minnesota 651-201-1022 (w) *| * russ.reilly(a)state.mn.us *[image: Title: MN.IT Services logo - Description: MN.IT Services logo]* <http://www.mn.gov/oet> Information Technology for Minnesota Government *|* mn.gov/mnit <http://www.mn.gov/oet> Begin forwarded message: *From:* Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)IPHOUSE.NET <merlyn(a)iphouse.net>> *Date:* July 19, 2016 at 08:51:27 CDT *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET <MICE-DISCUSS(a)lists.iphouse.net> *Subject:* *Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] State of MN DNS Issues* *Reply-To:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET <MICE-DISCUSS(a)lists.iphouse.net>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 03:42:13AM -0500, Richard Laager wrote: FYI: state.mn.us DNS has broken DNSSEC and broken IPv6. I called yesterday, and they were aware of the DNSSEC issue. I had to push out the early beta BIND 9.11 out to production so I could use the new Negative Trust anchor option for them on my frontline resolvers. rndc nta state.mn.us [view] I think only BIND based resolvers thought it was an error though. -- Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> ~.~ ipHouse ~.~ Network Engineer/Provisioning/Jack of all Trades -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================

July 19, 2016

Re: State of MN DNS Issues

by Doug McIntyre

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 03:42:13AM -0500, Richard Laager wrote: > FYI: state.mn.us DNS has broken DNSSEC and broken IPv6. I called > yesterday, and they were aware of the DNSSEC issue. I had to push out the early beta BIND 9.11 out to production so I could use the new Negative Trust anchor option for them on my frontline resolvers. rndc nta state.mn.us [view] I think only BIND based resolvers thought it was an error though. -- Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> ~.~ ipHouse ~.~ Network Engineer/Provisioning/Jack of all Trades

July 19, 2016

State of MN DNS Issues

by Richard Laager

FYI: state.mn.us DNS has broken DNSSEC and broken IPv6. I called yesterday, and they were aware of the DNSSEC issue. http://dnsviz.net/d/state.mn.us/dnssec/ -- Richard

July 19, 2016

Re: Good news from Akamai (Finally)

by DeLong, Owen

Quite a bit more likely, too. Owen > On Jul 12, 2016, at 14:32 , Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: > > This is better than Boston trouncing the Mets in a World Series! > > Thanks all. > > Best, > > -M< > > > >> On Jul 12, 2016, at 17:22, DeLong, Owen <owen(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: >> >> We have resolved the router issue and we are now delivering almost 8 Gbps to MICE. >> >> I expect this will continue to increase as things stabilize over the coming days. >> >> Please let me know if you have any questions. >> >> Also, in case you missed the first few memos… >> >> WE NO LONGER PEER WITH ROUTE SERVERS at MICE. >> >> If you want Akamai Traffic, you must set up bilateral peering with us. >> >> Send email to peering(a)akamai.com >> >> If you send email to peering(a)akamai.com and do not receive a response within 48 hours, please resend your email and CC owen(a)akamai.com. >> >> We will respond to peering requests on a timely basis and we have an open peering policy. >> >> Owen >>

July 13, 2016

Re: Good news from Akamai (Finally)

by Hannigan, Martin

This is better than Boston trouncing the Mets in a World Series! Thanks all. Best, -M< > On Jul 12, 2016, at 17:22, DeLong, Owen <owen(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: > > We have resolved the router issue and we are now delivering almost 8 Gbps to MICE. > > I expect this will continue to increase as things stabilize over the coming days. > > Please let me know if you have any questions. > > Also, in case you missed the first few memos… > > WE NO LONGER PEER WITH ROUTE SERVERS at MICE. > > If you want Akamai Traffic, you must set up bilateral peering with us. > > Send email to peering(a)akamai.com > > If you send email to peering(a)akamai.com and do not receive a response within 48 hours, please resend your email and CC owen(a)akamai.com. > > We will respond to peering requests on a timely basis and we have an open peering policy. > > Owen >

July 12, 2016

Good news from Akamai (Finally)

by DeLong, Owen

We have resolved the router issue and we are now delivering almost 8 Gbps to MICE. I expect this will continue to increase as things stabilize over the coming days. Please let me know if you have any questions. Also, in case you missed the first few memos… WE NO LONGER PEER WITH ROUTE SERVERS at MICE. If you want Akamai Traffic, you must set up bilateral peering with us. Send email to peering(a)akamai.com If you send email to peering(a)akamai.com and do not receive a response within 48 hours, please resend your email and CC owen(a)akamai.com. We will respond to peering requests on a timely basis and we have an open peering policy. Owen

July 12, 2016

Akamai @ MICE

by DeLong, Owen

Among the multitude of problems that have plagued this process, we have discovered yet another one. This time, it’s not actually our fault. It seems that the nifty new Juniper we deployed there is suffering from a hardware failure in the form of a memory failure which is causing a number of odd behaviors (such as forwarding packets in ways that don’t agree with the forwarding table). We are working to resolve this latest issue as quickly as possible and will continue to work to bring this site back up to full capacity as soon as possible. We apologize (again) for any inconvenience. Owen

July 12, 2016

Re: Slack

by Mike Horwath

On Fri, Jul 01, 2016 at 11:10:29AM -0500, Chris Wopat wrote: > On 07/01/2016 11:05 AM, Mike Horwath wrote: > > > I dunno - what is there to talk about in realtime? > > It's just basically IRC, which is usually just a competition to see > who can idle the longest :) I'd take that challenge.. -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG

July 1, 2016

Re: Slack

by Mike Horwath

On Fri, Jul 01, 2016 at 11:07:40AM -0500, Jason Hanke wrote: > circuit turn up, troubleshooting sounds like something that could be helpful. > We could also argue about port fees. :P Probably the most helpful of all! -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG

July 1, 2016

Re: Slack

by Chris Wopat

On 07/01/2016 11:05 AM, Mike Horwath wrote: > I dunno - what is there to talk about in realtime? It's just basically IRC, which is usually just a competition to see who can idle the longest :) -- Chris Wopat Network Engineer, WiscNet wopat(a)wiscnet.net 608-210-3965

July 1, 2016

Re: Slack

by Jason Hanke

circuit turn up, troubleshooting We could also argue about port fees. :P On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Mike Horwath <drechsau(a)geeks.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 01, 2016 at 10:47:46AM -0500, Jason Hanke wrote: > > Does anyone on the list use Slack? > > Yep! > > > Would a MICE Slack channel be useful? > > I dunno - what is there to talk about in realtime? > > -- > Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG > -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

July 1, 2016

Re: Slack

by Mike Horwath

On Fri, Jul 01, 2016 at 10:47:46AM -0500, Jason Hanke wrote: > Does anyone on the list use Slack? Yep! > Would a MICE Slack channel be useful? I dunno - what is there to talk about in realtime? -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG

July 1, 2016

Re: Slack

by Ben Wiechman

We do at Arvig Ben Wiechman Network Engineer IV | Arvig Direct: 320.256.0184 Cell: 320.247.3224 Office: 320.256.7471 ben.wiechman(a)arvig.com On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > Does anyone on the list use Slack? > > Would a MICE Slack channel be useful? > > -- > Jay Hanke > CTO > Neutral Path Communications > 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 327-2398 mobile > jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > www.neutralpath.net > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

July 1, 2016

Slack

by Jason Hanke

Does anyone on the list use Slack? Would a MICE Slack channel be useful? -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

July 1, 2016

Remote Switch Procedures

by Richard Laager

Does the new "Remote Switch" section on the technical page match everyone's understanding of the remote switch procedure and obligations? If not, please suggest specific corrections and I'll get right on it. http://micemn.net/technical.html I'm not sure if we have a formal agreement document. If I get one, I'll update accordingly, and also upload the document itself. -- Richard

June 28, 2016

Re: MICE UG 18 - Minutes

by Richard Laager

Resurrecting this ancient thread... I went back through the archives of mice-discuss and uploaded all the formal minutes. They're linked from the "resources" page: http://micemn.net/resources.html On 11/17/2015 06:48 PM, Richard Laager wrote: > 1) Do we want the approved minutes on the website? From the latest UG, I believe the answer is yes. Done. > 2) Do we want the _proposed_ minutes on the website? From the latest UG, I believe the answer is yes. Done, and marked as draft. > 3) Do we want the attendance list on the website? From the latest UG, I believe the answer is yes. Done. > 4) Would you prefer the original file formats (.docx, .xlsx) or is it > important that I convert them to HTML? I kept the original format of all documents. > 5) The website currently has a zip file with the articles of > incorporation, etc. from 2012. It's not linked from anywhere, though. > Delete it or link it? Linked. > 6) Do we want the updated articles/bylaws, etc. on the website? I uploaded everything I could find. I have asked the board members for board meeting minutes. I'll put up whatever I get. -- Richard

June 27, 2016

Akamai

by DeLong, Owen

MICE Participants, We’ve had some reports of peering(a)akamai.com<mailto:peering@akamai.com> email getting lost. We are looking into those reports. If you have not received a reply to your email, please resend it one more time and CC owen(a)akamai.com<mailto:owen@akamai.com>. I will personally make sure to get your peering session established as well as add you to the list of missing emails to be investigated. If you were peering with us on the route servers and have not yet requested bilateral peering with us on the exchange, please also send an email to peering(a)akamai.com<mailto:peering@akamai.com> and CC owen(a)akamai.com<mailto:owen@akamai.com> so that we can get a session created. We are no longer peering with the route servers at MICE, so if you want to receive traffic from us over MICE, you must configure a bilateral peering connection. We apologize for any inconvenience and we are working to restore full service as quickly as possible. We currently have limited capacity up and running in Minneapolis and will be installing additional capacity in the coming weeks. Our current target date for full service is July 15. Owen

June 22, 2016

UG 20 Minutes

by Shaun Carlson

Please see attached. REMINDER: Nominations for the open board position after UG 21 are now OPEN I will follow up with the final copies of the approved bylaws when I get home later this week. s *Shaun Carlson*Director of Information Technology | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com

June 22, 2016

Re: UG 20 Agenda

by Shaun Carlson

For reference, I've attached UG 19 minutes now. s *Shaun Carlson*Director of Information Technology | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 2:27 PM, Shaun Carlson <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> wrote: > Attached. > > See you all in a few! > > > *Shaun Carlson*Director of Information Technology | Arvig > ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >

June 22, 2016

UG 20 Agenda

by Shaun Carlson

Attached. See you all in a few! *Shaun Carlson*Director of Information Technology | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com

June 22, 2016

Re: Fwd: Invitation to WebEx meeting: MICE Meeting

by Russell Berg

Here is the WebEx invite/connection info… From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Jason Hanke Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 9:11 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Invitation to WebEx meeting: MICE Meeting <https://meetings.webex.com>[Cisco WebEx logo]<https://meetings.webex.com/><https://meetings.webex.com> Hi, [https://dms-c63.webexconnect.com/wbxdms/core/wbxc/U/U756R84EV65NCIEPEJ4QN7N…] WIN WebEx2(a)wins.net<mailto:WebEx2@wins.net> is inviting you to this WebEx meeting: [https://meetings.webex.com/collabsres0103l/local_domain_res/images/emails/m…] MICE Meeting<https://meetings.webex.com/collabs/meetings/view?uuid=M7CHE0SR6SUWQUIA04PUO…> Wed, Jun 22, 2:30 pm | 3 hr Chicago (Central Daylight Time, GMT-05:00) Host: WIN WebEx2(a)wins.net<mailto:WebEx2@wins.net> Join<https://meetings.webex.com/collabs/meetings/join?uuid=M7CHE0SR6SUWQUIA04PUO…> [https://meetings.webex.com/collabsres0103l/local_domain_res/images/emails/c…] Add the attached iCalendar (.ics) file to your calendar. [https://meetings.webex.com/collabsres0103l/local_domain_res/images/emails/a…] Agenda This meeting does not have an agenda. [https://meetings.webex.com/collabsres0103l/local_domain_res/images/emails/a…] Access Information Where: WebEx Online Meeting number: 192 718 463 Password: This meeting does not require a password. [https://meetings.webex.com/collabsres0103l/local_domain_res/images/emails/a…] Audio Connection +1-415-655-0001<tel:%2B1-415-655-0001> US TOLL Access code: 192 718 463 Can't access your meeting? Get help.<https://meetings.webex.com/collabs/#/support> Delivering the power of collaboration Cisco WebEx Team [Footer] IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the meeting to be recorded. By joining this meeting, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, discuss your concerns with the meeting host prior to the start of the recording or do not join the meeting. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation. ©2016 Cisco and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved. MT-A-001 <http://www.cisco.com/>[Cisco]<http://www.cisco.com/><http://www.cisco.com/> -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net<mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net> www.neutralpath.net<http://www.neutralpath.net> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

June 22, 2016

Re: MICE UG Meeting Additional Info

by Chris Wopat

On 06/22/2016 09:06 AM, Russell Berg wrote: > Reminder, we'll start the WebEx around 2:30 so people can debug their audio/video. Will the Webex info be sent out at that time as well? If it's possible to get it in advance even though the conference is not up, that would be helpful. Thanks, -- Chris Wopat Network Engineer, WiscNet wopat(a)wiscnet.net 608-210-3965

June 22, 2016

Re: MICE UG Meeting Additional Info

by Russell Berg

Reminder, we'll start the WebEx around 2:30 so people can debug their audio/video. Directions attached for those attending in person. We'll be meeting in Suite 201, right at the top off the stairs/elevator doors. People interested in a tour of our facility need to bring a photo ID. If there is anything to be shared from a presentation/graphic perspective, please forward the file(s) to me so they get pre-loaded on the presentation workstation. Looking forward to our meeting later today! Russ Russell Berg Senior Director – Products and Services, WIN 800 Wisconsin Street, Suite 219 Eau Claire, WI 54703 P: 715-832-3726 | C: 715-579-8227 www.wins.net -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Russell Berg Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 4:33 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE UG Meeting Additional Info I can accommodate either, or both. 2:15PM for pre-meeting tour. Tourists should bring photo ID. Russ Russell Berg Senior Director – Products and Services, WIN/Airstream P: 715-832-3726 | C: 715-579-8227 www.wins.net -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 4:12 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE UG Meeting Additional Info On 06/16/2016 04:00 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > WIN will also be offering tours of their Network Management Center and > Data Center located in the same building. Before or after the meeting? If before, what time should we arrive? -- Richard

June 22, 2016

Northern Lights Gigapop Maintenance Notice for 6/25/2016

by Colin Murphy

The Northern Lights Gigapop will be performing router maintenance on 6/25/2016 in a window from 8 PM to 2 AM. During this maintenance window you can expect one or more 20 minute service outages. If your service to the Northern Lights Gigapop has not restored by the end of the maintenance window please send an email to help(a)umn.edu with your BGP AS number and a description on the issue and will address it as soon as possible. Thanks, Colin Murphy Sr. Network Engineer Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota Northern Lights Gigapop Help Desk: help(a)umn.edu, 612-301-4357

June 21, 2016

Call for Agenda Items

by Shaun Carlson

With our impending meeting on Wednesday, I'd like to put out a call for any Agenda items anyone would like to be sure we discuss. Thanks! s *Shaun Carlson*Director of Information Technology | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com

June 20, 2016

Fwd: Invitation to WebEx meeting: MICE Meeting

by Jason Hanke

[image: Cisco WebEx logo] <https://meetings.webex.com> Hi, WIN WebEx2(a)wins.net is inviting you to this WebEx meeting: MICE Meeting <https://meetings.webex.com/collabs/meetings/view?uuid=M7CHE0SR6SUWQUIA04PUO…> *Wed, Jun 22, 2:30 pm* | 3 hr Chicago (Central Daylight Time, GMT-05:00) Host: WIN WebEx2(a)wins.net Join <https://meetings.webex.com/collabs/meetings/join?uuid=M7CHE0SR6SUWQUIA04PUO…> Add the attached iCalendar (.ics) file to your calendar. Agenda This meeting does not have an agenda. Access Information Where: WebEx Online Meeting number: 192 718 463 Password: This meeting does not require a password. Audio Connection *+1-415-655-0001 <%2B1-415-655-0001> *US TOLL Access code: *192 718 463* Can't access your meeting? Get help. <https://meetings.webex.com/collabs/#/support> Delivering the power of collaboration Cisco WebEx Team [image: Footer] IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the meeting to be recorded. By joining this meeting, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, discuss your concerns with the meeting host prior to the start of the recording or do not join the meeting. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation. ©2016 Cisco and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved. MT-A-001 [image: Cisco] <http://www.cisco.com/> -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 20, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Jason Hanke

Rough model attached. Intended to be played with and modified. Note, I didn't increase the support costs (counted as part of opex) after the upgrade. We should account for that but after we get a couple of 100G going life seems easier... On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > Actually, the NFP process and equipment costs are by far the largest > killers. > > MICE has less than $2500 in annual opex if you exclude the NFP legal fees. > We almost had to stop adding members last year due to running out of ports. > All of the other things have been inkind (printing/pins/website etc) > > Keep in mind that we haven't had a checkbook since 2014. > > > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)akamai.com> > wrote: > >> >> Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per >> user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. >> >> Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. >> >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET >> <showard(a)paulbunyan.net>> wrote: >> >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: >> >> 1Gbps $200/month >> 10Gbps $1000/year >> >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever >> is active on January 1 gets a bill. >> >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be >> disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any >> time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have >> historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. >> >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as >> long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the >> remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting >> to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this >> covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has >> only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: >> >> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... >> >> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: >> >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early >>> exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of >>> their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees >>> would suddenly make us golden. >>> >>> Reid >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this >>>> week. >>>> >>>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in >>>> Seattle. >>>> >>>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>>> >>>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.seattleix.net_join…> >>>> >>>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jay Hanke >>>> CTO >>>> Neutral Path Communications >>>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>>> <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>>> >>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> >>>> www.neutralpath.net >>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Reid Fishler >>> Director >>> Hurricane Electric >>> +1-510-580-4178 >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jay Hanke >> CTO >> Neutral Path Communications >> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >> Mankato, MN 56001 >> (507) 327-2398 mobile >> <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> >> www.neutralpath.net >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > > > > -- > Jay Hanke > CTO > Neutral Path Communications > 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 327-2398 mobile > jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > www.neutralpath.net > -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 16, 2016

Re: MICE UG Meeting Additional Info

by Russell Berg

I can accommodate either, or both. 2:15PM for pre-meeting tour. Tourists should bring photo ID. Russ Russell Berg Senior Director – Products and Services, WIN/Airstream P: 715-832-3726 | C: 715-579-8227 www.wins.net -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 4:12 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE UG Meeting Additional Info On 06/16/2016 04:00 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > WIN will also be offering tours of their Network Management Center and > Data Center located in the same building. Before or after the meeting? If before, what time should we arrive? -- Richard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Jason Hanke

Actually, the NFP process and equipment costs are by far the largest killers. MICE has less than $2500 in annual opex if you exclude the NFP legal fees. We almost had to stop adding members last year due to running out of ports. All of the other things have been inkind (printing/pins/website etc) Keep in mind that we haven't had a checkbook since 2014. On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)akamai.com> wrote: > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per > user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET > <showard(a)paulbunyan.net>> wrote: > > Here is a starting point for a discussion: > > 1Gbps $200/month > 10Gbps $1000/year > > Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever > is active on January 1 gets a bill. > > All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be > disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any > time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have > historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. > > End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as > long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the > remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting > to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this > covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has > only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. > > > > > > On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > > I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > >> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early >> exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of >> their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees >> would suddenly make us golden. >> >> Reid >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> >> wrote: >> >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this >>> week. >>> >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. >>> >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>> >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.seattleix.net_join…> >>> >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>> >>> -- >>> Jay Hanke >>> CTO >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>> <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> >>> www.neutralpath.net >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Reid Fishler >> Director >> Hurricane Electric >> +1-510-580-4178 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> >> > > > > -- > Jay Hanke > CTO > Neutral Path Communications > 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 327-2398 mobile > <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> > www.neutralpath.net > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 16, 2016

Re: MICE UG Meeting Additional Info

by Richard Laager

On 06/16/2016 04:00 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > WIN will also be offering tours of their Network Management Center and > Data Center located in the same building. Before or after the meeting? If before, what time should we arrive? -- Richard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by David Farmer

+1, but beyond emergencies, cover incidental meeting expenses, a small marketing budget. It would be nice to be able to pay our own way for a meeting room at the Hyatt during the MTA show if we need to. No dancing girls or fancy dinners, but some signage and/or booth banner like thing, brochures, pens, maybe some T-Shirts or other logowear (maybe a logowear store). On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > The amount of money we need depends upon our success. The point right now is > that we need SOMETHING in the bank to not have to beg every time there is an > emergency. I think we are beyond that. > > Reid > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> > wrote: >> >> IIRC, the discussions last time several years back broke down as to >> include colo rent costs and how much to budget for a new kit every 36 >> months. >> >> If you exclude rent, equipment purchase and nfp legal fees, all of the >> other costs are currently very small (support and ARIN fees). >> >> Support is running about 1900 Annually for 1 EX4200 and one EX4500. I'm >> not sure how the EX4550 is currently handled support wise. >> >> IMHO, we should budget to build a up a reserve to get to $20k in the next >> 12 months. I could be persuaded up or down on the number. I looked at "pizza >> box" 100g switches and I believe we get something into service for around >> 13k + support. We'd end up with 5k to cover ongoing legal and nfp accounting >> expenses. >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Dale W. Carder <dwcarder(a)wisc.edu> wrote: >>> >>> Thus spake Andrew Hoyos (hoyosa(a)GMAIL.COM) on Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at >>> 02:35:54PM -0500: >>> > +1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood >>> > what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year >>> > equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this broken >>> > out at some point, floating around. >>> >>> yep, this. >>> >>> My other comment is that our org can typically pay invoices, but not make >>> donations nor become legal "members". Hopefully the sustainability model >>> could account for this. >>> >>> Dale (w/ AS3128 hat on) >>> >>> >>> > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 >>> > > per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess >>> > > yes. >>> > > >>> > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: >>> > >> >>> > >> 1Gbps $200/month >>> > >> 10Gbps $1000/year >>> > >> >>> > >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. >>> > >> Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. >>> > >> >>> > >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be >>> > >> disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. >>> > >> Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have >>> > >> historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. >>> > >> >>> > >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not >>> > >> pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by >>> > >> the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports >>> > >> connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, >>> > >> this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS >>> > >> has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: >>> > >>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... >>> > >>> >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> >>> > >>> wrote: >>> > >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early >>> > >>> exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of >>> > >>> their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees >>> > >>> would suddenly make us golden. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Reid >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke >>> > >>> <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: >>> > >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier >>> > >>> this week. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in >>> > >>> Seattle. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>> > >>> >>> > >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>> > >>> >>> > >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -- >>> > >>> Jay Hanke >>> > >>> CTO >>> > >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>> > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> > >>> www.neutralpath.net >>> > >>> >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following >>> > >>> link: >>> > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -- >>> > >>> Reid Fishler >>> > >>> Director >>> > >>> Hurricane Electric >>> > >>> +1-510-580-4178 >>> > >>> >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following >>> > >>> link: >>> > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -- >>> > >>> Jay Hanke >>> > >>> CTO >>> > >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>> > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> > >>> www.neutralpath.net >>> > >>> >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following >>> > >>> link: >>> > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> > >>> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> > >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> > > >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jay Hanke >> CTO >> Neutral Path Communications >> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >> Mankato, MN 56001 >> (507) 327-2398 mobile >> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >> www.neutralpath.net >> >> ________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > > > -- > Reid Fishler > Director > Hurricane Electric > +1-510-580-4178 > > ________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Jason Hanke

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > The amount of money we need depends upon our success. The point right now > is that we need SOMETHING in the bank to not have to beg every time there > is an emergency. I think we are beyond that. > That's one of the reasons I like the one time fees. As ports are added, the reserve grows to cover replacement/upgrade.

June 16, 2016

MICE UG Meeting Additional Info

by Jason Hanke

We need a rough headcount for the meeting next week. Please RSVP on our Facebook event. https://www.facebook.com/events/695794023896344/ We also need a rough count on the remote participation. WIN has video conferencing facilities and will open up a webex. WIN will also be offering tours of their Network Management Center and Data Center located in the same building. -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Jason Hanke

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Richard Laager <rlaager(a)wiktel.com> wrote: > On 06/16/2016 02:27 PM, Steve Howard wrote: > >> End users of remote switches pay as above. >> > > Can you elaborate on why you want it this way? As opposed to: the remote > switch operator pays for the MICE ports, and it's their business how to > recover that. +1 to Richard. As I see it the port fees are covering the maintenance and augmentations of the main switch. Having the remote operators with varying financial terms is good for the ecosystem. Also, the remotes have agreed to cover the (hopefully non-blocking) transport back to MICE so they should have a way to recover their costs should they choose.

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Reid Fishler

The amount of money we need depends upon our success. The point right now is that we need SOMETHING in the bank to not have to beg every time there is an emergency. I think we are beyond that. Reid On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > IIRC, the discussions last time several years back broke down as to > include colo rent costs and how much to budget for a new kit every 36 > months. > > If you exclude rent, equipment purchase and nfp legal fees, all of the > other costs are currently very small (support and ARIN fees). > > Support is running about 1900 Annually for 1 EX4200 and one EX4500. I'm > not sure how the EX4550 is currently handled support wise. > > IMHO, we should budget to build a up a reserve to get to $20k in the next > 12 months. I could be persuaded up or down on the number. I looked at > "pizza box" 100g switches and I believe we get something into service for > around 13k + support. We'd end up with 5k to cover ongoing legal and nfp > accounting expenses. > > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Dale W. Carder <dwcarder(a)wisc.edu> wrote: > >> Thus spake Andrew Hoyos (hoyosa(a)GMAIL.COM) on Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at >> 02:35:54PM -0500: >> > +1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood >> what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year >> equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this >> broken out at some point, floating around. >> >> yep, this. >> >> My other comment is that our org can typically pay invoices, but not make >> donations nor become legal "members". Hopefully the sustainability model >> could account for this. >> >> Dale (w/ AS3128 hat on) >> >> >> > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 >> per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess >> yes. >> > > >> > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> >> wrote: >> > > >> > >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: >> > >> >> > >> 1Gbps $200/month >> > >> 10Gbps $1000/year >> > >> >> > >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. >> Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. >> > >> >> > >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be >> disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any >> time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have >> historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. >> > >> >> > >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not >> pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by >> the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports >> connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 >> each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If >> CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: >> > >>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... >> > >>> >> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> >> wrote: >> > >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early >> exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of >> their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees >> would suddenly make us golden. >> > >>> >> > >>> Reid >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke < >> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: >> > >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier >> this week. >> > >>> >> > >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in >> Seattle. >> > >>> >> > >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >> > >>> >> > >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >> > >>> >> > >>> -- >> > >>> Jay Hanke >> > >>> CTO >> > >>> Neutral Path Communications >> > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >> > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >> > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >> > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >> > >>> www.neutralpath.net >> > >>> >> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> -- >> > >>> Reid Fishler >> > >>> Director >> > >>> Hurricane Electric >> > >>> +1-510-580-4178 >> > >>> >> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> -- >> > >>> Jay Hanke >> > >>> CTO >> > >>> Neutral Path Communications >> > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >> > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >> > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >> > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >> > >>> www.neutralpath.net >> > >>> >> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> > >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > >> >> > > >> > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > > >> > > > > -- > Jay Hanke > CTO > Neutral Path Communications > 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 327-2398 mobile > jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > www.neutralpath.net > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Jason Hanke

IIRC, the discussions last time several years back broke down as to include colo rent costs and how much to budget for a new kit every 36 months. If you exclude rent, equipment purchase and nfp legal fees, all of the other costs are currently very small (support and ARIN fees). Support is running about 1900 Annually for 1 EX4200 and one EX4500. I'm not sure how the EX4550 is currently handled support wise. IMHO, we should budget to build a up a reserve to get to $20k in the next 12 months. I could be persuaded up or down on the number. I looked at "pizza box" 100g switches and I believe we get something into service for around 13k + support. We'd end up with 5k to cover ongoing legal and nfp accounting expenses. On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Dale W. Carder <dwcarder(a)wisc.edu> wrote: > Thus spake Andrew Hoyos (hoyosa(a)GMAIL.COM) on Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at > 02:35:54PM -0500: > > +1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood > what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year > equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this > broken out at some point, floating around. > > yep, this. > > My other comment is that our org can typically pay invoices, but not make > donations nor become legal "members". Hopefully the sustainability model > could account for this. > > Dale (w/ AS3128 hat on) > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 > per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess > yes. > > > > > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> > wrote: > > > > > >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: > > >> > > >> 1Gbps $200/month > > >> 10Gbps $1000/year > > >> > > >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. > Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. > > >> > > >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be > disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any > time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have > historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. > > >> > > >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not > pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by > the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports > connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 > each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If > CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > > >>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... > > >>> > > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> > wrote: > > >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early > exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of > their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees > would suddenly make us golden. > > >>> > > >>> Reid > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke < > jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > > >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier > this week. > > >>> > > >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in > Seattle. > > >>> > > >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join > > >>> > > >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Jay Hanke > > >>> CTO > > >>> Neutral Path Communications > > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 > > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile > > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > > >>> www.neutralpath.net > > >>> > > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Reid Fishler > > >>> Director > > >>> Hurricane Electric > > >>> +1-510-580-4178 > > >>> > > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Jay Hanke > > >>> CTO > > >>> Neutral Path Communications > > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 > > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile > > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > > >>> www.neutralpath.net > > >>> > > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > > -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Steve Howard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Dale W. Carder

Thus spake Richard Laager (rlaager(a)WIKTEL.COM) on Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 02:56:56PM -0500: > Dale, you raise an interesting point. If your organization cannot be a legal > member... We should double-check that the bylaws don't automatically make > you a member and count you towards quorum. WI State Statute 36.585(3) for those of you playing lawyer at home ;-) Dale

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Richard Laager

Dale, you raise an interesting point. If your organization cannot be a legal member... We should double-check that the bylaws don't automatically make you a member and count you towards quorum. -- Richard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Richard Laager

On 06/16/2016 02:27 PM, Steve Howard wrote: > End users of remote switches pay as above. Can you elaborate on why you want it this way? As opposed to: the remote switch operator pays for the MICE ports, and it's their business how to recover that. -- Richard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Dale W. Carder

Thus spake Andrew Hoyos (hoyosa(a)GMAIL.COM) on Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 02:35:54PM -0500: > +1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this broken out at some point, floating around. yep, this. My other comment is that our org can typically pay invoices, but not make donations nor become legal "members". Hopefully the sustainability model could account for this. Dale (w/ AS3128 hat on) > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: > > > > > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. > > > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> wrote: > > > >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: > >> > >> 1Gbps $200/month > >> 10Gbps $1000/year > >> > >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. > >> > >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. > >> > >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > >>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. > >>> > >>> Reid > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. > >>> > >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. > >>> > >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: > >>> > >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join > >>> > >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jay Hanke > >>> CTO > >>> Neutral Path Communications > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > >>> www.neutralpath.net > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Reid Fishler > >>> Director > >>> Hurricane Electric > >>> +1-510-580-4178 > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jay Hanke > >>> CTO > >>> Neutral Path Communications > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > >>> www.neutralpath.net > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >> > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >

June 16, 2016