- mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: Arista Support Contract

by Richard Laager

On 02/01/2018 09:35 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > How about getting a loan to cover the difference? That way we could get > the savings and not affect the revenue percentages. The message of mine you replied to was about the 85% rule, which applies to revenue. That was in the context of donations. We need to ensure that, each year, our revenue is at least 85% derived from members. For small donations that together don't add up to anywhere near 15%, this is not a concern. If someone wants to make a _sizable_ donation or we get a lot of small donations, that should be okay as long as they are from members, but we may want to double-check with a professional first. If non-member donations would push member-derived revenue under the 85% mark, we lose our Federal tax-exempt status for that year. See: https://www.irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-012 However, there is a _separate_ issue as to whether donations from members count in the same way as purchases (i.e. port fees) when calculating capital credits. If someone wants to donate, we'll need to seek professional guidance about how to handle that. Either way, I imagine we would be able to accept the donation. As far as I can see, loans aren't relevant to the 85% member revenue test. Putting three year's worth of major expenses into one year would have an effect on capital credits. As far as I know, we are accounting on a cash basis. By "bunching" expenses into the first year, our profit will be lower in the first year and higher in the second and third years. This means that members will accrue lower capital credits in year one and higher capital credits in years two and three. If everything else was equal (no members come or go or pay different port fees), this would be irrelevant. But in practice, it will create some variation. With cash basis accounting, it seems to me that a loan should smooth that out. Is that variation in capital credits a problem? Probably not. It seems like it's going to be part of the natural cycle. I expect our typical pattern over the long term will be to build up cash for a while and then spend a big chunk on switch hardware before starting the cycle over. -- Richard

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by Richard Laager

On 02/01/2018 09:32 PM, David Farmer wrote: > your fiduciary responsibility to the membership comes first, agreeing to > keep the total expenditure confidential once made would not be > inconsistent with that responsibility in my opinion. I assume you meant "would not be consistent" or "would be inconsistent". I have not made any specific or additional confidentiality or non-disclosure agreements as part of this process. Arista has not made any requests in this regard beyond the boilerplate on their quote documents. I am just trying to honor what I see as the normal convention in such matters. I do not anticipate any change in the normal treasurer's reports. That is, yes, I expect the payments will be disclosed once made as usual. If the guidance from the membership is that this is unacceptable and I should publicly disclose all the numbers now, I can put that to Arista. -- Richard

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by Reid Fishler

Loan from? Reid On Feb 1, 2018 10:35 PM, "Jason Hanke" <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > How about getting a loan to cover the difference? That way we could get > the savings and not affect the revenue percentages. > > On Feb 1, 2018 8:17 PM, "Richard Laager" <rlaager(a)wiktel.com> wrote: > >> > On Feb 1, 2018, at 19:45, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)MNVOIP.COM> wrote: >> > >> > It is also a nice time to call for any donations. >> >> On donations, free money is obviously great, but we do need to watch the >> 85% rule now that we are a co-op. If someone is interested in donating, >> please contact me off-list. >> >> Paying your port fees invoice promptly is also helpful here. >> >> -- >> Richard > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by Jason Hanke

How about getting a loan to cover the difference? That way we could get the savings and not affect the revenue percentages. On Feb 1, 2018 8:17 PM, "Richard Laager" <rlaager(a)wiktel.com> wrote: > > On Feb 1, 2018, at 19:45, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)MNVOIP.COM> wrote: > > > > It is also a nice time to call for any donations. > > On donations, free money is obviously great, but we do need to watch the > 85% rule now that we are a co-op. If someone is interested in donating, > please contact me off-list. > > Paying your port fees invoice promptly is also helpful here. > > -- > Richard

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by David Farmer

I expect the resulting total expenditure to be disclosed to the membership, once the expenditure is made. The specific line-item details are unnecessary and should be kept confidential. However, your fiduciary responsibility to the membership comes first, agreeing to keep the total expenditure confidential once made would not be inconsistent with that responsibility in my opinion. Thanks. On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 8:29 PM, Richard Laager <rlaager(a)wiktel.com> wrote: > Just to be clear: the numbers are deliberately missing here on the public > discuss list. I am keeping the other board members fully informed on all > the details, including specific numbers, of course. > > -- > Richard -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by Richard Laager

Just to be clear: the numbers are deliberately missing here on the public discuss list. I am keeping the other board members fully informed on all the details, including specific numbers, of course. -- Richard

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by Richard Laager

> On Feb 1, 2018, at 19:50, Andrew Hoyos <hoyosa(a)GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > I’m a numbers guy - can you fill in the blanks on what 1yr vs 3yr contract costs are, and what’s in the bank now vs what’s expected when folks pay this years port fees? The numbers are deliberately missing. Vendors tend to expect/require confidentiality on pricing. I can take numbers from you though. If you wish to share your thoughts on what 1 vs 3 year ratios are fair, a minimum balance for MICE to maintain, etc., please do. -- Richard

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by Richard Laager

> On Feb 1, 2018, at 19:45, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)MNVOIP.COM> wrote: > > It is also a nice time to call for any donations. On donations, free money is obviously great, but we do need to watch the 85% rule now that we are a co-op. If someone is interested in donating, please contact me off-list. Paying your port fees invoice promptly is also helpful here. -- Richard

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by David Farmer

+1 Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 1, 2018, at 19:45, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)MNVOIP.COM> wrote: > > I think it is worth getting the discount even though it draws the account down quite a bit. Thanks Arista for allowing the split. It is also a nice time to call for any donations. If anyone has been thinking about donating, but was on the fence about when, now would be a great time! > > -----Original Message----- > From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Richard Laager > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 6:52 PM > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Arista Support Contract > > MICE is responsible for the on-going support contract costs for the main > Arista switch. This was factored into the design of the port fees. > > We have received quotes from Arista. As is customary, the three-year > price is cheaper per year than the one-year price. The savings is > non-trivial, especially relative to our annual revenue, so I think it > would be wise to purchase the three-year contract. > > The three-year contract cost is more than our current cash balance. > After we collect this year's port fees, we will be able to cover it > while keeping a reasonable reserve. However, we need to do something > sooner, as it needs to be renewed this month. Fortunately, Arista has > offered to let us split the order in two halves to avoid us drawing the > bank balance too close to zero. > > Does the membership have any input they'd like to provide the board in > this matter? > > -- > Richard

Feb. 2, 2018

Re: Arista Support Contract

by Andrew Hoyos

I’m a numbers guy - can you fill in the blanks on what 1yr vs 3yr contract costs are, and what’s in the bank now vs what’s expected when folks pay this years port fees? I’m sure it’s a no brainer to go with the 3year option, but having actual numbers to back it up are helpful here :) Also, with the order split scenario, when would they expect payments? Thanks! — Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com > On Feb 1, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Richard Laager <rlaager(a)WIKTEL.COM> wrote: > > MICE is responsible for the on-going support contract costs for the main > Arista switch. This was factored into the design of the port fees. > > We have received quotes from Arista. As is customary, the three-year > price is cheaper per year than the one-year price. The savings is > non-trivial, especially relative to our annual revenue, so I think it > would be wise to purchase the three-year contract. > > The three-year contract cost is more than our current cash balance. > After we collect this year's port fees, we will be able to cover it > while keeping a reasonable reserve. However, we need to do something > sooner, as it needs to be renewed this month. Fortunately, Arista has > offered to let us split the order in two halves to avoid us drawing the > bank balance too close to zero. > > Does the membership have any input they'd like to provide the board in > this matter? > > -- > Richard

Feb. 2, 2018