- mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Land O Lakes left MICE

by Jay Hanke

Land O Lakes has disconnected from MICE. IXP Manager has been updated. -- Jay Hanke, President South Front Networks jayhanke(a)southfront.io Phone 612-204-0000 https://southfront.io/path.html http://peeringsummit.com <--- Des Moines July 17-18, 2023

May 24, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

On 2023-05-13 01:30, Richard Laager wrote: > I am currently allowing the following sources across the board: > ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB,NTTCOM,LEVEL3 Change as of today: ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB,*ALTDB,*NTTCOM,LEVEL3 -- Richard

May 23, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

I added some bits about IXP Manager and IRR to the website: https://micemn.net/technical.html I also updated the communities bit to reflect what the new route servers will support. Suggestions welcome. -- Richard

May 23, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

This is the current cutover plan: Phase 1: On Tuesday, May 23, starting around 10:00 AM US/Central, we will upgrade route server 1. It will enforce the IRR as-set requirement for transit ASes, but will NOT enforce the IRR prefix requirement. Since route server 2 will still exist, even the as-set requirement is only a soft requirement. Phase 2: On Wednesday, May 31, starting around 10:00 AM US/Central, we will upgrade route server 2. It will be fully enforcing. At that point, the as-set requirement will be a hard requirement. The prefix IRR requirement will still be a soft requirement, as route server 1 will still not be enforcing. Phase 3: Tentatively, on Wednesday, June 7, starting around 10:00 AM US/Central, we will configure route server 1 to be fully enforcing. At that point, all IRR requirements will hard requirements. This date is subject to change based on what we see filtered. *We ask that you do /not/ take down your route server BGP sessions for these changes, as that will make it harder for us to know if things are working. If you are going to do so (e.g. because your organization's policies require it), then please let me know so I can expect your session to be down.* -- Richard

May 13, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

I am currently allowing the following sources across the board: ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB,NTTCOM,LEVEL3 On 2023-05-12 11:14, Michael Hare wrote: > It also handles the $REGISTRY::$THING model. Thanks for the tip! I switched from bgpq3 to bgpq4. IXP Manager doesn't support bgpq4, but the only difference was one flag. I used a wrapper script for now, and filed a feature request with IXP Manager: https://github.com/inex/IXP-Manager/issues/844 Arnold Nipper, via the IXP Manager mailing list, gave me an example of how to get this information out of PeeringDB. With that, I was able to write a script to interact with the IXP Manager database. It pulls the current settings from IXP Manager, pulls from PeeringDB, reports any changes, updates IXP Manager, and triggers the ASN & prefix updates in IXP Manager. I have that set to run hourly. The route servers will update their configuration hourly, offset by 30 minutes. That is, route server 1 will update at xx:08 and route server 2 will update at xx:38. -- Richard

May 13, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Michael Hare

FWIW, AS3128 uses some homegrown stuff to wrap bgpq4, bgpq4 provides an ability to deal with concern #3 below for recursion [if you choose to accept the caveats]. See https://github.com/bgp/bgpq4#notes-on-sources. It also handles the $REGISTRY::$THING model. This may just be cool info for the time being, but you may find it interesting. For AS3128 peers I've had to provide a way to list sources per peer; look up AS-SUPRANET in RIPE vs ARIN. The one I want is in ARIN so the ordering matters. Yes, I know AS-$number is a better idea and AS-UWSYSNET is also guilty as charged. -Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of > Richard Laager > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 11:27 AM > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers > > On 2023-05-11 10:30, Chris Wopat wrote: > > Can't folks just specify which IRR in their IRR entry if desired? Ie > > > > ARIN::AS1234 > > 1. bgpq3 does not accept that format, at least in my limited testing. > > 2. IXP Manager would likely need changes to support that, specifically > not passing the argument for sources to bgpq3 if a disambiguation was > provided. > > 3. I think the more important fundamental issue is that a transit AS's > as-set might need to reference customer ASes/as-sets that are in other > registries. > > > FWIW we only use RADB but are fine if the common IRR's (but not legacy > > arin) are used. > > > > Also is there any reason at all to use non-ARIN teritory IRR data? Do > > any MICE participants have anything in RIPE for example? > > See #3 above. > > For example, someone like Hurricane Electric can't ask all of their > customers worldwide to be in ARIN. Given the way this has historically > developed, I don't think it's even reasonable to expect that only-RIR > registries are used. > > -- > Richard

May 12, 2023

Please welcome ImOn Communications to MICE!

by Jeremy Lumby

Name: ImOn Communications Switch: MN VoIP Port: Adding E40, E41 and E42 to Po5 for a total of 7x10G ASN: 393238 IPv4: This is a port addition. All IP info remains the same. IPv6: Peering Contact: imonadmins(a)imon.net Route Servers: Yes BFD: Yes Welcome Aboard Again! Jeremy Lumby Minnesota VoIP 9217 17th Ave S #216 Bloomington, MN 55425 M: 612-355-7740 D: 612-392-6814 F: 952-873-7425 jlumby(a)mnvoip.com

May 12, 2023

Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Miles McCredie

I did a spot check of a few ASNs and it looks to me as though the following ASNs have route(6) objects that only exist in NTTCOM: 2906, 20940 and 33438. (Stopped looking after I found these three.) My recommendation is to include NTTCOM. The cruft in the database should be suppressed according to https://www.gin.ntt.net/support-center/policies-procedures/routing-registry…. [http://images.midcocomm.com/ES_MidcoLogo.png] Miles McCredie Principal Network Engineer II-Core IP Office: 6052755192 Miles.McCredie(a)midco.com Midco.com From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 11:52 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] [EXTERNAL] - Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers On 2023-05-11 05:58, Miles McCredie wrote: I think a global list of sources would be easier to maintain and document. Excellent point. Is NTTCOM no longer trusted? The available sources are here: https://www.radb.net/query/?advanced_query=1 That does include NTTCOM, so we could use it. But if nobody is speaking up in favor of it, I'm not currently planning on it. The list I gave was the union of all choices that exist in IXP Manager by default, minus ARIN-NONAUTH and RIPE-NONAUTH. -- Richard ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

May 12, 2023

Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

On 2023-05-11 05:58, Miles McCredie wrote: > > I think a global list of sources would be easier to maintain and document. > Excellent point. > Is NTTCOM no longer trusted? > The available sources are here: https://www.radb.net/query/?advanced_query=1 That does include NTTCOM, so we could use it. But if nobody is speaking up in favor of it, I'm not currently planning on it. The list I gave was the union of all choices that exist in IXP Manager by default, minus ARIN-NONAUTH and RIPE-NONAUTH. -- Richard

May 12, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Jay Hanke

> For example, someone like Hurricane Electric can't ask all of their > customers worldwide to be in ARIN. Given the way this has historically > developed, I don't think it's even reasonable to expect that only-RIR > registries are used. The provided list is the list of IRR (+ IRR combinations) that shows up in the pulldown menu in the admin interface of IXP Manager. It points to the where the AS-SET record is located for the directly attached member. So when you put the information in you select the IRR and type in (or pull) the AS-SET record. bgpq3/4 will then pull all the prefixes and generate a filter list from the union of all the prefixes listed. The AS_set name in the DB::NAME format will just need to be reformatted when entered into IXP Manager web interface.

May 11, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

On 2023-05-11 10:30, Chris Wopat wrote: > Can't folks just specify which IRR in their IRR entry if desired? Ie > > ARIN::AS1234 1. bgpq3 does not accept that format, at least in my limited testing. 2. IXP Manager would likely need changes to support that, specifically not passing the argument for sources to bgpq3 if a disambiguation was provided. 3. I think the more important fundamental issue is that a transit AS's as-set might need to reference customer ASes/as-sets that are in other registries. > FWIW we only use RADB but are fine if the common IRR's (but not legacy > arin) are used. > > Also is there any reason at all to use non-ARIN teritory IRR data? Do > any MICE participants have anything in RIPE for example? See #3 above. For example, someone like Hurricane Electric can't ask all of their customers worldwide to be in ARIN. Given the way this has historically developed, I don't think it's even reasonable to expect that only-RIR registries are used. -- Richard

May 11, 2023

Re: [External] Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Tom Krenn

Would it be safe to assume that squatting wouldn't happen in the RIR's authenticated IRRs? And that if multiple entries exist among them, that keeping them in sync or free of bad data would be on the individual participant? If so placing the authenticated RIRs above everything else seems a pretty safe bet. Order among them wouldn't really matter. Personally given that I would love to see us grab the sets from the aut-num object for the participants ASN. Seems like ignoring the routing policy in the aut-num object in favor of PeeringDB or a manual process is only half using the IRR system. (That said I understand that bgpq3 doesn't use the aut-num object.) Tom Krenn Network Architect Enterprise Architecture - Information Technology -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Chris Wopat Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 10:30 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [External] Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers CAUTION: This email was sent from outside of Hennepin County. Unless you recognize the sender and know the content, do not click links or open attachments. Can't folks just specify which IRR in their IRR entry if desired? Ie ARIN::AS1234 FWIW we only use RADB but are fine if the common IRR's (but not legacy arin) are used. Also is there any reason at all to use non-ARIN teritory IRR data? Do any MICE participants have anything in RIPE for example? --Chris On 5/11/23 10:01, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > External > > I do not see a need for per participant IRR, I would rather that they > all just default to your example below. > > *From:*MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of > *Richard Laager > *Sent:* Thursday, May 11, 2023 3:58 AM > *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route > Servers > > On 2023-05-09 14:01, August Yang wrote: > > Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB? > > Definitely. We have objects registered in all databases feasible to > prevent AS-SET squatting, which has occurred in the past, while only > RADB has the actual members listed. Turns out correct prefix list > can be generated using bgpq4 regardless of the order, so it's better > to prioritize authenticated sources. > > In thinking about this some more... Is IXP Manager's behavior of > per-participant IRR sources actually useful? In other words, what's > wrong with just setting everyone to: > ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB,LEVEL3? > > -- > > Richard > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists > .iphouse.net%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FSUBED1%3DMICE-DISCUSS%26A%3D1&data=05%7C > 01%7Ctom.krenn%40HENNEPIN.US%7C2f7c1b8d95af410486a008db5234a38e%7C8aef > df9f878046bf8fb74c924653a8be%7C0%7C0%7C638194158303151171%7CUnknown%7C > TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC > I6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hdjzW0mk8Kd2pgvauE5I0544Xhlox3CaSJ%2FaF > NQAWWg%3D&reserved=0 > <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist > s.iphouse.net%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FSUBED1%3DMICE-DISCUSS%26A%3D1&data=05%7 > C01%7Ctom.krenn%40HENNEPIN.US%7C2f7c1b8d95af410486a008db5234a38e%7C8ae > fdf9f878046bf8fb74c924653a8be%7C0%7C0%7C638194158303151171%7CUnknown%7 > CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV > CI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hdjzW0mk8Kd2pgvauE5I0544Xhlox3CaSJ%2Fa > FNQAWWg%3D&reserved=0> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists > .iphouse.net%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FSUBED1%3DMICE-DISCUSS%26A%3D1&data=05%7C > 01%7Ctom.krenn%40HENNEPIN.US%7C2f7c1b8d95af410486a008db5234a38e%7C8aef > df9f878046bf8fb74c924653a8be%7C0%7C0%7C638194158303151171%7CUnknown%7C > TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC > I6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hdjzW0mk8Kd2pgvauE5I0544Xhlox3CaSJ%2FaF > NQAWWg%3D&reserved=0 > <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist > s.iphouse.net%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FSUBED1%3DMICE-DISCUSS%26A%3D1&data=05%7 > C01%7Ctom.krenn%40HENNEPIN.US%7C2f7c1b8d95af410486a008db5234a38e%7C8ae > fdf9f878046bf8fb74c924653a8be%7C0%7C0%7C638194158303151171%7CUnknown%7 > CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV > CI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hdjzW0mk8Kd2pgvauE5I0544Xhlox3CaSJ%2Fa > FNQAWWg%3D&reserved=0> > -- Chris Wopat Network Engineer, WiscNet wopat(a)wiscnet.net 608-210-3965 Disclaimer: If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please immediately notify the sender of the transmission error and then promptly permanently delete this message from your computer system.

May 11, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Jay Hanke

> Also is there any reason at all to use non-ARIN teritory IRR data? Do > any MICE participants have anything in RIPE for example? There are several outside the ARIN region and likely more in the future.

May 11, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Chris Wopat

Can't folks just specify which IRR in their IRR entry if desired? Ie ARIN::AS1234 FWIW we only use RADB but are fine if the common IRR's (but not legacy arin) are used. Also is there any reason at all to use non-ARIN teritory IRR data? Do any MICE participants have anything in RIPE for example? --Chris On 5/11/23 10:01, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > External > > I do not see a need for per participant IRR, I would rather that they > all just default to your example below. > > *From:*MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of > *Richard Laager > *Sent:* Thursday, May 11, 2023 3:58 AM > *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers > > On 2023-05-09 14:01, August Yang wrote: > > Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB? > > Definitely. We have objects registered in all databases feasible to > prevent AS-SET squatting, which has occurred in the past, while only > RADB has the actual members listed. Turns out correct prefix list > can be generated using bgpq4 regardless of the order, so it's better > to prioritize authenticated sources. > > In thinking about this some more... Is IXP Manager's behavior of > per-participant IRR sources actually useful? In other words, what's > wrong with just setting everyone to: > ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB,LEVEL3? > > -- > > Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > -- Chris Wopat Network Engineer, WiscNet wopat(a)wiscnet.net 608-210-3965

May 11, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Jeremy Lumby

I do not see a need for per participant IRR, I would rather that they all just default to your example below. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 3:58 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers On 2023-05-09 14:01, August Yang wrote: Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB? Definitely. We have objects registered in all databases feasible to prevent AS-SET squatting, which has occurred in the past, while only RADB has the actual members listed. Turns out correct prefix list can be generated using bgpq4 regardless of the order, so it's better to prioritize authenticated sources. In thinking about this some more... Is IXP Manager's behavior of per-participant IRR sources actually useful? In other words, what's wrong with just setting everyone to: ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB,LEVEL3? -- Richard _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1

May 11, 2023

Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Miles McCredie

I think a global list of sources would be easier to maintain and document. Is NTTCOM no longer trusted? I took a look at the AS11232 customer cone and there are a few objects in NTTCOM but it looked as though all of them also appear in another database so I don't have strong feelings that NTTCOM needs to be included. [http://images.midcocomm.com/ES_MidcoLogo.png] Miles McCredie Principal Network Engineer II-Core IP Office: 6052755192 Miles.McCredie(a)midco.com Midco.com From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 3:58 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers CAUTION: This email originated from outside of MIDCO. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. On 2023-05-09 14:01, August Yang wrote: Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB? Definitely. We have objects registered in all databases feasible to prevent AS-SET squatting, which has occurred in the past, while only RADB has the actual members listed. Turns out correct prefix list can be generated using bgpq4 regardless of the order, so it's better to prioritize authenticated sources. In thinking about this some more... Is IXP Manager's behavior of per-participant IRR sources actually useful? In other words, what's wrong with just setting everyone to: ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB,LEVEL3? -- Richard ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

May 11, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

On 2023-05-09 14:01, August Yang wrote: > >> Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB? > Definitely. We have objects registered in all databases feasible to > prevent AS-SET squatting, which has occurred in the past, while only > RADB has the actual members listed. Turns out correct prefix list can > be generated using bgpq4 regardless of the order, so it's better to > prioritize authenticated sources. In thinking about this some more... Is IXP Manager's behavior of per-participant IRR sources actually useful? In other words, what's wrong with just setting everyone to: ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB,LEVEL3? -- Richard

May 11, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

On 2023-05-09 14:16, Jonathan Stewart wrote: > In my (limited) experience, the filter generator makes a prefix-list > using objects from all the approved IRRs that match the contents of the > AS-SET. > > In my case, that means route(6) objects from ARIN and RADB are combined > to make a prefix-list that's bigger than just ARIN or RADB-sourced objects. > > The order has not been relevant, nor specified. FWIW, MICE is going to use IXP Manager's direct bird templating, not arouteserver (like MBIX uses), so the way this works may be slightly different. -- Richard

May 10, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Jonathan Stewart

On Tue, 2023-05-09 1:20 p.m., Richard Laager wrote: > I am specifically interested in feedback on this point. But please, > only real-world scenarios, no speculation ("someone might ..."). > > Background: > > * This setting is per-participant. > * Order is important. When looking for a given IRR object, the first > source that includes that object will be used. > In my (limited) experience, the filter generator makes a prefix-list using objects from all the approved IRRs that match the contents of the AS-SET. In my case, that means route(6) objects from ARIN and RADB are combined to make a prefix-list that's bigger than just ARIN or RADB-sourced objects. The order has not been relevant, nor specified. No need for NONAUTH sources, and ARIN has completely retired theirs. Cheers, Jonathan Jonathan Stewart Network Engineer LES.NET - AS18451 Desk: 1-204-666-6191 Mobile: 1-204-990-2120 130 Portage Avenue E Winnipeg, MB R3C 0A1 CANADA > * I think we want to prefer RIR-authenticated sources over others. > > Questions: > > 1. Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB and similar for > RADB,RIPE and RADB,APNIC,ARIN? Tentative: Yes. > 2. Should I drop RIPE-NONAUTH choices? Tentative: If nobody is using > it by the end of this, I'll just remove it. > 3. Does anyone know if AFRINIC, APNIC, and LACNIC are authenticated? > 4. Does anyone know if people care about LEVEL3's IRR? Tentative: If > nobody is using it by the end of this, I'll just remove it. > 5. How do I set the source per participant? I /think/ what we want is > the following, for each participant: > > 1. I use RADB's web interface to view the specified as-set. If > the "source" of that object is an RIR registry, e.g. ARIN, I > set the source in IXP Manager to that RIR source. If the > source is RADB, I set the source to $RIR,RADB where $RIR is > the RIR that issued the participant's ASN. For example, if > someone is in the ARIN region, ARIN. If someone is in the RIPE > region, RIPE. The idea is to make it easy for them to move to > the RIR registry in the future. > 2. I manually trigger the AS and prefix update and make sure I > get results. > 3. If the source is just $RIR, I then change this to $RIR,RADB. I > manually trigger the AS and prefix update. If that second > update changed nothing, I remove RADB. If that update did > change something, then I eyeball it and make a decision. I > would be looking to detect the scenario where e.g. the as-set > is in the ARIN region but references customer ASes/as-sets > that are in RADB; in such a case, I need to allow RADB. In > contrast, if the records in RADB appear to be outdated and > someone has moved to ARIN, I would want to remove RADB. > > If that becomes too tedious, a fallback option is to set everyone > to something like ARIN,RIPE,RADB or > ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB. (The order of the RIRs is > negotiable. I don't really know much about non-ARIN IRR.) > > > On 5/9/23 11:25, Jay Hanke wrote: >> Here are the current IRR sources. Please note ARIN-NONAUTH is not >> included. >> >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE,RIPE-NONAUTH >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> LACNIC >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> AFRINIC >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> APNIC >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> LEVEL3 >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> ARIN >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,ARIN >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> ALTDB >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,RIPE >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,APNIC,ARIN >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE,ARIN >> >> On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 11:14 AM August Yang >> <0000001654c01f33-dmarc-request(a)lists.iphouse.net> wrote: >> >> Could you please clarify which IRR source will be included for >> filter generation? We currently rely on RADb instead of ARIN for >> our IRR records, and it would be helpful to confirm if this will >> be used with the new route servers. >> > -- > Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> >

May 9, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by August Yang

> Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB? Definitely. We have objects registered in all databases feasible to prevent AS-SET squatting, which has occurred in the past, while only RADB has the actual members listed. Turns out correct prefix list can be generated using bgpq4 regardless of the order, so it's better to prioritize authenticated sources. > Should I drop RIPE-NONAUTH choices? Should I drop LEVEL3? Yes and no. RIPE-NONAUTH is essentially a dead database with no editing or new objects possible while LEVEL3 is actively used and there's no advantage in excluding it. > Does anyone know if AFRINIC, APNIC, and LACNIC are authenticated? At this point all RIR databases are authenticated. On 2023-05-09 2:20 p.m., Richard Laager wrote: > I am specifically interested in feedback on this point. But please, > only real-world scenarios, no speculation ("someone might ..."). > > Background: > > * This setting is per-participant. > * Order is important. When looking for a given IRR object, the first > source that includes that object will be used. > * I think we want to prefer RIR-authenticated sources over others. > > Questions: > > 1. Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB and similar for > RADB,RIPE and RADB,APNIC,ARIN? Tentative: Yes. > 2. Should I drop RIPE-NONAUTH choices? Tentative: If nobody is using > it by the end of this, I'll just remove it. > 3. Does anyone know if AFRINIC, APNIC, and LACNIC are authenticated? > 4. Does anyone know if people care about LEVEL3's IRR? Tentative: If > nobody is using it by the end of this, I'll just remove it. > 5. How do I set the source per participant? I /think/ what we want is > the following, for each participant: > > 1. I use RADB's web interface to view the specified as-set. If > the "source" of that object is an RIR registry, e.g. ARIN, I > set the source in IXP Manager to that RIR source. If the > source is RADB, I set the source to $RIR,RADB where $RIR is > the RIR that issued the participant's ASN. For example, if > someone is in the ARIN region, ARIN. If someone is in the RIPE > region, RIPE. The idea is to make it easy for them to move to > the RIR registry in the future. > 2. I manually trigger the AS and prefix update and make sure I > get results. > 3. If the source is just $RIR, I then change this to $RIR,RADB. I > manually trigger the AS and prefix update. If that second > update changed nothing, I remove RADB. If that update did > change something, then I eyeball it and make a decision. I > would be looking to detect the scenario where e.g. the as-set > is in the ARIN region but references customer ASes/as-sets > that are in RADB; in such a case, I need to allow RADB. In > contrast, if the records in RADB appear to be outdated and > someone has moved to ARIN, I would want to remove RADB. > > If that becomes too tedious, a fallback option is to set everyone > to something like ARIN,RIPE,RADB or > ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB. (The order of the RIRs is > negotiable. I don't really know much about non-ARIN IRR.) > > > On 5/9/23 11:25, Jay Hanke wrote: >> Here are the current IRR sources. Please note ARIN-NONAUTH is not >> included. >> >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE,RIPE-NONAUTH >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> LACNIC >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> AFRINIC >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> APNIC >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> LEVEL3 >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> ARIN >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,ARIN >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> ALTDB >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,RIPE >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,APNIC,ARIN >> whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE,ARIN >> >> On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 11:14 AM August Yang >> <0000001654c01f33-dmarc-request(a)lists.iphouse.net> wrote: >> >> Could you please clarify which IRR source will be included for >> filter generation? We currently rely on RADb instead of ARIN for >> our IRR records, and it would be helpful to confirm if this will >> be used with the new route servers. >> > -- > Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > -- Best regards August Yang

May 9, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

I am specifically interested in feedback on this point. But please, only real-world scenarios, no speculation ("someone might ..."). Background: * This setting is per-participant. * Order is important. When looking for a given IRR object, the first source that includes that object will be used. * I think we want to prefer RIR-authenticated sources over others. Questions: 1. Should I reorder RADB,ARIN to be ARIN,RADB and similar for RADB,RIPE and RADB,APNIC,ARIN? Tentative: Yes. 2. Should I drop RIPE-NONAUTH choices? Tentative: If nobody is using it by the end of this, I'll just remove it. 3. Does anyone know if AFRINIC, APNIC, and LACNIC are authenticated? 4. Does anyone know if people care about LEVEL3's IRR? Tentative: If nobody is using it by the end of this, I'll just remove it. 5. How do I set the source per participant? I /think/ what we want is the following, for each participant: 1. I use RADB's web interface to view the specified as-set. If the "source" of that object is an RIR registry, e.g. ARIN, I set the source in IXP Manager to that RIR source. If the source is RADB, I set the source to $RIR,RADB where $RIR is the RIR that issued the participant's ASN. For example, if someone is in the ARIN region, ARIN. If someone is in the RIPE region, RIPE. The idea is to make it easy for them to move to the RIR registry in the future. 2. I manually trigger the AS and prefix update and make sure I get results. 3. If the source is just $RIR, I then change this to $RIR,RADB. I manually trigger the AS and prefix update. If that second update changed nothing, I remove RADB. If that update did change something, then I eyeball it and make a decision. I would be looking to detect the scenario where e.g. the as-set is in the ARIN region but references customer ASes/as-sets that are in RADB; in such a case, I need to allow RADB. In contrast, if the records in RADB appear to be outdated and someone has moved to ARIN, I would want to remove RADB. If that becomes too tedious, a fallback option is to set everyone to something like ARIN,RIPE,RADB or ARIN,RIPE,LACNIC,APNIC,AFRINIC,RADB. (The order of the RIRs is negotiable. I don't really know much about non-ARIN IRR.) On 5/9/23 11:25, Jay Hanke wrote: > Here are the current IRR sources. Please note ARIN-NONAUTH is not > included. > > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE,RIPE-NONAUTH > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> LACNIC > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> AFRINIC > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> APNIC > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> LEVEL3 > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> ARIN > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,ARIN > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> ALTDB > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,RIPE > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RADB,APNIC,ARIN > whois.radb.net <http://whois.radb.net> RIPE,ARIN > > On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 11:14 AM August Yang > <0000001654c01f33-dmarc-request(a)lists.iphouse.net> wrote: > > Could you please clarify which IRR source will be included for > filter generation? We currently rely on RADb instead of ARIN for > our IRR records, and it would be helpful to confirm if this will > be used with the new route servers. > -- Richard

May 9, 2023

Re: [External] [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Richard Laager

On 5/9/23 12:54, Tom Krenn wrote: > > Will the filters be built off our aut-num object or just the as-set > listed on PeeringDB? > I /think/ they just use the as-set. Last night, I tested the underlying command against someone who does not have an aut-num, but does have route objects referencing their AS. Their prefixes were found. The underlying command is bgpq3. So if you really want to get low level, install that somewhere and run bgpq3 AS_SET_NAME and bgpq3 -6 AS_SET_NAME. IXP Manager actually runs that with more flags, but they aren't particular relevant (other than minimum prefix length). -- Richard

May 9, 2023

Re: [External] [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Jay Hanke

This is what we are seeing in IXP Manager. Looks like your config got pulled from PeeringDB. Network Information =================== Name : HENNEPIN-COUNTY Primary ASN : 40382 Also Known As : Website : https://www.hennepin.us/ IRR AS-SET : AS40382:AS-MEMBERS Network Type : Government Approx IPv6 Prefixes : 100 Approx IPv4 Prefixes : 100 Looking Glass : Route Server : Created at : 2021-12-21T16:47:05Z Updated at : 2022-08-29T22:55:11Z PrefixFirst seenLast seen 137.70.0.0/16 <https://ixpmgr.micemn.net/index.php#ixpm-prefix-whois-43ffe576808e1d023202a…> 2023-03-27 00:08:07 2023-05-09 12:55:43 204.73.55.0/24 <https://ixpmgr.micemn.net/index.php#ixpm-prefix-whois-74fb2430d7d8ea4b1f390…> 2023-03-27 00:08:07 2023-05-09 12:55:43 50.217.178.0/24 <https://ixpmgr.micemn.net/index.php#ixpm-prefix-whois-4add3bae394355548a2e8…> 2023-03-27 00:08:07 2023-05-09 12:55:43 PrefixFirst seenLast seen 2606:e540::/32 <https://ixpmgr.micemn.net/index.php#ixpm-prefix-whois-62695e9e020d26faf9540…> 2023-03-27 00:08:07 2023-05-09 12:55:43 2606:e540::/36 <https://ixpmgr.micemn.net/index.php#ixpm-prefix-whois-5ed6e7f9e0a5db531a80d…> 2023-03-27 00:08:07 2023-05-09 12:55:43 On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 12:54 PM Tom Krenn < 00000015253bd7fc-dmarc-request(a)lists.iphouse.net> wrote: > Will the filters be built off our aut-num object or just the as-set listed > on PeeringDB? > > > > Tom Krenn > > Network Architect > > Enterprise Architecture - Information Technology > > [image: Hennepin County logo] > > > > > > *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> * On Behalf Of *Richard > Laager > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 9, 2023 5:20 AM > *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > *Subject:* [External] [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route > Servers > > > > *CAUTION:* This email was sent from outside of Hennepin County. Unless > you recognize the sender and know the content, do not click links or open > attachments. > > [I plan to send this to MICE-ANNOUNCE too, but I want to see if anyone has > corrections.] > > MICE will soon be deploying new route servers which will require IRR > (Internet Routing Registry) records, as is a best practice at IXPs. > > *What* > > - You MUST have an as-set object listing your AS and your downstream > ASes (if any). > > > - You MUST either list that as-set in PeeringDB or email the name of > your as-set to me (off-list to rlaager(a)wiktel.com please). > > > - A route/route6 object MUST exist for each prefix you announce to the > route servers (whether originated by you or transited through you) and it > must list an Origin AS that is in your as-set. > > *When* > > - *If you are a transit AS (i.e. have ASes behind you) and don't have > an as-set object, fix this now.* Without an as-set object, your > downstream ASes announcements will be blocked (filtered) immediately when > the *first* new route server is cut in. (Granted, they will still > work through the second route server until it is upgraded.) Figure you have > 1-2 weeks at most. > - Enforcement of the route/route6 objects (for both transit and > non-transit ASes) will come later, but not a lot later. So please, start on > this now. > > *Where* > > If you are not sure *where* to create IRR records, use ARIN (assuming you > are in the ARIN region). > > *How (with ARIN)* > > 1. Login to ARIN Online. (Go to arin.net and click Login in the top > right.) > 2. On the left side, expand "Routing Security" and click "IRR". > 3. Click "as-set" at the top. > 4. Click "Create an Object". > 5. Fill in the fields: > The "AS Set Name" is what you will list in PeeringDB (or email to me). > "Description" is unparsed, but they suggest the location and have a > button to "Copy the Address from My Org ID". > "Members" is where you list your ASN and downstream ASes (if any). > 6. Click "Review". Once ready, click "Submit". > 7. Click "route/route6" at the top. > 8. Click "Create an Object". > 9. Fill in the fields: > "Prefix" is the prefix, e.g. 192.0.2.0/24. > "Origin" is your ASN. > 10. Click "Review". Once ready, click "Submit". > 11. Repeat to create additional route objects until all of your > announcements are covered. Don't forget IPv6! > > *Examples* > > Here is my as-set: https://www.radb.net/query?keywords=AS-WIKTEL > > Here is one example route: > https://www.radb.net/query?keywords=69.89.192.0%2F20 > > (I created the AS33362 one. The AS19905 one is because another AS can > originate this route for DDoS scrubbing reasons.) > > -- > > Richard > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > *Disclaimer:* If you are not the intended recipient of this message, > please immediately notify the sender of the transmission error and then > promptly permanently delete this message from your computer system. > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

May 9, 2023

Re: [External] [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Tom Krenn

Will the filters be built off our aut-num object or just the as-set listed on PeeringDB? Tom Krenn Network Architect Enterprise Architecture - Information Technology [Hennepin County logo] From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 5:20 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [External] [MICE-DISCUSS] IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers CAUTION: This email was sent from outside of Hennepin County. Unless you recognize the sender and know the content, do not click links or open attachments. [I plan to send this to MICE-ANNOUNCE too, but I want to see if anyone has corrections.] MICE will soon be deploying new route servers which will require IRR (Internet Routing Registry) records, as is a best practice at IXPs. What * You MUST have an as-set object listing your AS and your downstream ASes (if any). * You MUST either list that as-set in PeeringDB or email the name of your as-set to me (off-list to rlaager(a)wiktel.com<mailto:rlaager@wiktel.com> please). * A route/route6 object MUST exist for each prefix you announce to the route servers (whether originated by you or transited through you) and it must list an Origin AS that is in your as-set. When * If you are a transit AS (i.e. have ASes behind you) and don't have an as-set object, fix this now. Without an as-set object, your downstream ASes announcements will be blocked (filtered) immediately when the first new route server is cut in. (Granted, they will still work through the second route server until it is upgraded.) Figure you have 1-2 weeks at most. * Enforcement of the route/route6 objects (for both transit and non-transit ASes) will come later, but not a lot later. So please, start on this now. Where If you are not sure where to create IRR records, use ARIN (assuming you are in the ARIN region). How (with ARIN) 1. Login to ARIN Online. (Go to arin.net and click Login in the top right.) 2. On the left side, expand "Routing Security" and click "IRR". 3. Click "as-set" at the top. 4. Click "Create an Object". 5. Fill in the fields: The "AS Set Name" is what you will list in PeeringDB (or email to me). "Description" is unparsed, but they suggest the location and have a button to "Copy the Address from My Org ID". "Members" is where you list your ASN and downstream ASes (if any). 6. Click "Review". Once ready, click "Submit". 7. Click "route/route6" at the top. 8. Click "Create an Object". 9. Fill in the fields: "Prefix" is the prefix, e.g. 192.0.2.0/24. "Origin" is your ASN. 10. Click "Review". Once ready, click "Submit". 11. Repeat to create additional route objects until all of your announcements are covered. Don't forget IPv6! Examples Here is my as-set: https://www.radb.net/query?keywords=AS-WIKTEL Here is one example route: https://www.radb.net/query?keywords=69.89.192.0%2F20 (I created the AS33362 one. The AS19905 one is because another AS can originate this route for DDoS scrubbing reasons.) -- Richard ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 Disclaimer: If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please immediately notify the sender of the transmission error and then promptly permanently delete this message from your computer system.

May 9, 2023

Re: IRR Mandatory at MICE / New Route Servers

by Jay Hanke

Here are the current IRR sources. Please note ARIN-NONAUTH is not included. whois.radb.net RIPE whois.radb.net RIPE,RIPE-NONAUTH whois.radb.net RADB whois.radb.net LACNIC whois.radb.net AFRINIC whois.radb.net APNIC whois.radb.net LEVEL3 whois.radb.net ARIN whois.radb.net RADB,ARIN whois.radb.net ALTDB whois.radb.net RADB,RIPE whois.radb.net RADB,APNIC,ARIN whois.radb.net RIPE,ARIN On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 11:14 AM August Yang < 0000001654c01f33-dmarc-request(a)lists.iphouse.net> wrote: > Thank you for your efforts in making routing more secure for the entire > MICE community. > > Could you please clarify which IRR source will be included for filter > generation? We currently rely on RADb instead of ARIN for our IRR records, > and it would be helpful to confirm if this will be used with the new route > servers. > On 2023-05-09 6:19 a.m., Richard Laager wrote: > > [I plan to send this to MICE-ANNOUNCE too, but I want to see if anyone has > corrections.] > > MICE will soon be deploying new route servers which will require IRR > (Internet Routing Registry) records, as is a best practice at IXPs. > > *What* > > - You MUST have an as-set object listing your AS and your downstream > ASes (if any). > - You MUST either list that as-set in PeeringDB or email the name > of your as-set to me (off-list to rlaager(a)wiktel.com please). > - A route/route6 object MUST exist for each prefix you announce to > the route servers (whether originated by you or transited through you) and > it must list an Origin AS that is in your as-set. > > *When* > > - *If you are a transit AS (i.e. have ASes behind you) and don't have > an as-set object, fix this **now**.* Without an as-set object, your > downstream ASes announcements will be blocked (filtered) immediately when > the *first* new route server is cut in. (Granted, they will still > work through the second route server until it is upgraded.) Figure you have > 1-2 weeks at most. > - Enforcement of the route/route6 objects (for both transit and > non-transit ASes) will come later, but not a lot later. So please, start on > this now. > > *Where* > > If you are not sure *where* to create IRR records, use ARIN (assuming you > are in the ARIN region). > > *How (with ARIN)* > > 1. Login to ARIN Online. (Go to arin.net and click Login in the top > right.) > 2. On the left side, expand "Routing Security" and click "IRR". > 3. Click "as-set" at the top. > 4. Click "Create an Object". > 5. Fill in the fields: > The "AS Set Name" is what you will list in PeeringDB (or email to me). > "Description" is unparsed, but they suggest the location and have a > button to "Copy the Address from My Org ID". > "Members" is where you list your ASN and downstream ASes (if any). > 6. Click "Review". Once ready, click "Submit". > 7. Click "route/route6" at the top. > 8. Click "Create an Object". > 9. Fill in the fields: > "Prefix" is the prefix, e.g. 192.0.2.0/24. > "Origin" is your ASN. > 10. Click "Review". Once ready, click "Submit". > 11. Repeat to create additional route objects until all of your > announcements are covered. Don't forget IPv6! > > *Examples* > > Here is my as-set: https://www.radb.net/query?keywords=AS-WIKTEL > > Here is one example route: > https://www.radb.net/query?keywords=69.89.192.0%2F20 > > (I created the AS33362 one. The AS19905 one is because another AS can > originate this route for DDoS scrubbing reasons.) > > -- > Richard > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > -- > Best regards > August Yang > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

May 9, 2023