- mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: One-time port fees

by Dale W. Carder

Thus spake Andrew Hoyos (hoyosa(a)GMAIL.COM) on Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 02:35:54PM -0500: > +1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this broken out at some point, floating around. yep, this. My other comment is that our org can typically pay invoices, but not make donations nor become legal "members". Hopefully the sustainability model could account for this. Dale (w/ AS3128 hat on) > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: > > > > > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. > > > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> wrote: > > > >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: > >> > >> 1Gbps $200/month > >> 10Gbps $1000/year > >> > >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. > >> > >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. > >> > >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > >>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. > >>> > >>> Reid > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. > >>> > >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. > >>> > >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: > >>> > >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join > >>> > >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jay Hanke > >>> CTO > >>> Neutral Path Communications > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > >>> www.neutralpath.net > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Reid Fishler > >>> Director > >>> Hurricane Electric > >>> +1-510-580-4178 > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jay Hanke > >>> CTO > >>> Neutral Path Communications > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > >>> www.neutralpath.net > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >> > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Andrew Hoyos

I found this from 2012 in the archives. Could the board take a crack at this with updated data, and send along for input to members? I think this will paint a good picture of what the actual costs are. > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Andrew Hoyos <hoyosa(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > +1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this broken out at some point, floating around. > > > -- > Andrew Hoyos > hoyosa(a)gmail.com > > > >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: >> >> >> Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. >> >> Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. >> >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> wrote: >> >>> Here is a starting point for a discussion: >>> >>> 1Gbps $200/month >>> 10Gbps $1000/year >>> >>> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. >>> >>> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. >>> >>> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: >>>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: >>>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. >>>> >>>> Reid >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: >>>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. >>>> >>>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. >>>> >>>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>>> >>>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>>> >>>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jay Hanke >>>> CTO >>>> Neutral Path Communications >>>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>>> www.neutralpath.net >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Reid Fishler >>>> Director >>>> Hurricane Electric >>>> +1-510-580-4178 >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jay Hanke >>>> CTO >>>> Neutral Path Communications >>>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>>> www.neutralpath.net >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> >

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Andrew Hoyos

+1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this broken out at some point, floating around. -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: > > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> wrote: > >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: >> >> 1Gbps $200/month >> 10Gbps $1000/year >> >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. >> >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. >> >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: >>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. >>> >>> Reid >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. >>> >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. >>> >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>> >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>> >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>> >>> -- >>> Jay Hanke >>> CTO >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> www.neutralpath.net >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Reid Fishler >>> Director >>> Hurricane Electric >>> +1-510-580-4178 >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jay Hanke >>> CTO >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> www.neutralpath.net >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Steve Howard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Hannigan, Martin

Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET<mailto:showard@paulbunyan.net>> wrote: Here is a starting point for a discussion: 1Gbps $200/month 10Gbps $1000/year Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net<mailto:rfishler@he.net>> wrote: SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. Reid On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net<mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net>> wrote: There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: https://www.seattleix.net/join<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.seattleix.net_join…> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398<tel:%28507%29%20327-2398> mobile <mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net<mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…>www.neutralpath.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178<tel:%2B1-510-580-4178> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile <mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net<mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…>www.neutralpath.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…>

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Reid Fishler

Hopefully there is news about the NFP status at the board/usergroup meeting, that I hope you all will be at next week! Reid On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Steve Howard <showard(a)paulbunyan.net> wrote: > Here is a starting point for a discussion: > > 1Gbps $200/month > 10Gbps $1000/year > > Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever > is active on January 1 gets a bill. > > All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be > disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any > time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have > historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. > > End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as > long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the > remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting > to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this > covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has > only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. > > > > > > > On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > > I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > >> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early >> exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of >> their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees >> would suddenly make us golden. >> >> Reid >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> >> wrote: >> >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this >>> week. >>> >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. >>> >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>> >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>> >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>> >>> -- >>> Jay Hanke >>> CTO >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> (507) 327-2398 <%28507%29%20327-2398> mobile >>> <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> <http://www.neutralpath.net>www.neutralpath.net >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Reid Fishler >> Director >> Hurricane Electric >> +1-510-580-4178 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > > > > -- > Jay Hanke > CTO > Neutral Path Communications > 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 327-2398 mobile > <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > <http://www.neutralpath.net>www.neutralpath.net > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Jeremy Lumby

Do you mean 1Gbps $200/year ? From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Steve Howard Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:28 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] One-time port fees Here is a starting point for a discussion: 1Gbps $200/month 10Gbps $1000/year Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. Reid On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: https://www.seattleix.net/join This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Steve Howard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Jason Hanke

I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange > out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their > structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would > suddenly make us golden. > > Reid > > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> > wrote: > >> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this >> week. >> >> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. >> >> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >> >> https://www.seattleix.net/join >> >> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >> >> -- >> Jay Hanke >> CTO >> Neutral Path Communications >> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >> Mankato, MN 56001 >> (507) 327-2398 mobile >> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >> www.neutralpath.net >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > > > > -- > Reid Fishler > Director > Hurricane Electric > +1-510-580-4178 > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Dean Bahls

I’ve typically been pretty silent on matters of MICE, but we at CNS are very supportive of the effort and thank everyone for everything they do to keep the exchange working. I’m of the opinion that we should be paying *monthly* fees for ports to keep the exchange solvent. One-time fees are nice, but monthly fees might be necessary. Thanks, Dean From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Reid Fishler Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 1:47 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] One-time port fees SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. Reid On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net <mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net> > wrote: There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: https://www.seattleix.net/join This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 <tel:%28507%29%20327-2398> mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net <mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net> www.neutralpath.net <http://www.neutralpath.net> _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1 -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178 _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Reid Fishler

SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. Reid On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this > week. > > There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. > > Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: > > https://www.seattleix.net/join > > This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. > > -- > Jay Hanke > CTO > Neutral Path Communications > 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 327-2398 mobile > jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > www.neutralpath.net > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178

June 16, 2016

One-time port fees

by Jason Hanke

There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: https://www.seattleix.net/join This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 16, 2016

Re: Airstream Additional 10G port

by Doug McIntyre

On Wed, Jun 01, 2016 at 01:35:36PM -0500, Jason Hanke wrote: > Airstream would like to add an additional 10G port. > > I have allocated port xe-2/0/20 on the main switch. This port will > need to be in a LAG group with their existing port xe-0/0/20. Sure, I have LAG ae8 allocated for them, and will put the new port into it for now and co-ordinate a cutover time/process with them. -- Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> ~.~ ipHouse ~.~ Network Engineer/Provisioning/Jack of all Trades

June 1, 2016

Airstream Additional 10G port

by Jason Hanke

Airstream would like to add an additional 10G port. I have allocated port xe-2/0/20 on the main switch. This port will need to be in a LAG group with their existing port xe-0/0/20. Charles Monson is the primary contact within WIN. All IP addressing will remain the same. Could the Tech Committee reach out to coordinate. Thanks! -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 1, 2016

Re: Fwd: Route Server #1 - IPv6

by Nathan Beard

Doug, I had checked my IPv6 ND table prior to submitting my first email, and I still don't see any issues on my side: /RP/0/RSP0/CPU0:STELLAR-511-ASR9006#show ipv6 neighbors te0/1/0/0 | include d1af:0:// //2001:504:27::d1af:0:1 9 0026.b966.2cd8 REACH Te0/1/0/0 0/1/CPU0 // //2001:504:27::d1af:0:2 78 f01f.afdb.a5d5 REACH Te0/1/0/0 0/1/CPU0 / Even with valid ND resolutions I still can only hit the single RR as previously indicated: /RP/0/RSP0/CPU0:STELLAR-511-ASR9006#ping ipv6 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1 // //Type escape sequence to abort.// //Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1, timeout is 2 seconds:// //.....// //Success rate is 0 percent (0/5)/ /RP/0/RSP0/CPU0:STELLAR-511-ASR9006#ping ipv6 2001:504:27::d1af:0:2// //Type escape sequence to abort.// //Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:504:27::d1af:0:2, timeout is 2 seconds:// //!!!!!// //Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 1/1/1 ms/ I have no IPv6 filtering in place on the interface facing the MICE exchange, and I've verified that I have IPv6 bi-lateral peering sessions up and running to other exchange addresses: /Neighbor Spk AS MsgRcvd MsgSent TblVer InQ OutQ Up/Down St/PfxRcd// //2001:504:27::1055:0:1// // 0 4181 19348 19312 9906063 0 0 6d09h 3// //2001:504:27::4e93:0:1// // 0 20115 19371 19313 9906063 0 0 6d09h 19/ Let me know if you have any other suggestions after taking a look, otherwise I'll continue to troubleshoot my side this afternoon. In any case I'm not sure the entire MICE list needs to be copied on this back and forth since it sounds like there are only a couple affected members... Thanks! On 06/01/16 09:17, Doug McIntyre wrote: > On Wed, Jun 01, 2016 Nathan Beard <nbeard(a)stellarllc.net> wrote: >> Is there a particular reason why the IPv6 address for route server #1 > .. > > Hmm, it is reachable for me and 30 others on the exchange. There are two > connected to RR#2 via IPv6 that aren't on #1 & you are one of those. > > RR#2 can ping you, but RR#1 gets nothing back. > > FWIW: I don't know of your policies, but I can't ping your IPv6 endpoint > from my (ie. ipHouse) network either, nor can I connect to your endpoint > on the BGP port from RR#1. > > IPv6 NDP on RR#1 can't seem to resolve you, which is probably why pings > and BGP connects don't work. > > Although I do see BGP traffic sessions coming in from you if I > tcpdump, I can't seem to do the neighbor discovery (ie. IPv6 ARP > method) to get your address though. > > 09:05:45.022173 IP6 2001:504:27::8e16:0:1.36711 > 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1.179: Flags [S], seq 1656210645, win 16384, options [mss 1440,wscale 0,eol], length 0 > 09:05:47.023930 IP6 2001:504:27::8e16:0:1.36711 > 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1.179: Flags [S], seq 1656210645, win 16384, options [mss 1440,wscale 0,eol], length 0 > 09:05:51.025407 IP6 2001:504:27::8e16:0:1.36711 > 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1.179: Flags [S], seq 1656210645, win 16384, options [mss 1440,wscale 0,eol], length 0 > 09:05:59.027328 IP6 2001:504:27::8e16:0:1.36711 > 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1.179: Flags [S], seq 1656210645, win 16384, options [mss 1440,wscale 0,eol], length 0 > > But the biggest problem is that RR#1 can't seem to get back to you. > > Could you check your filters for IPv6, particularly with reguard to ND > facing the route servers? There are no filters being run on the RR machines. > (ssh et. al filtering is handled upstream). > -- Nathan Beard Network Engineer nbeard(a)stellarllc.net (218) 820-7636

June 1, 2016

Re: Fwd: Route Server #1 - IPv6

by Doug McIntyre

On Wed, Jun 01, 2016 Nathan Beard <nbeard(a)stellarllc.net> wrote: > Is there a particular reason why the IPv6 address for route server #1 .. Hmm, it is reachable for me and 30 others on the exchange. There are two connected to RR#2 via IPv6 that aren't on #1 & you are one of those. RR#2 can ping you, but RR#1 gets nothing back. FWIW: I don't know of your policies, but I can't ping your IPv6 endpoint from my (ie. ipHouse) network either, nor can I connect to your endpoint on the BGP port from RR#1. IPv6 NDP on RR#1 can't seem to resolve you, which is probably why pings and BGP connects don't work. Although I do see BGP traffic sessions coming in from you if I tcpdump, I can't seem to do the neighbor discovery (ie. IPv6 ARP method) to get your address though. 09:05:45.022173 IP6 2001:504:27::8e16:0:1.36711 > 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1.179: Flags [S], seq 1656210645, win 16384, options [mss 1440,wscale 0,eol], length 0 09:05:47.023930 IP6 2001:504:27::8e16:0:1.36711 > 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1.179: Flags [S], seq 1656210645, win 16384, options [mss 1440,wscale 0,eol], length 0 09:05:51.025407 IP6 2001:504:27::8e16:0:1.36711 > 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1.179: Flags [S], seq 1656210645, win 16384, options [mss 1440,wscale 0,eol], length 0 09:05:59.027328 IP6 2001:504:27::8e16:0:1.36711 > 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1.179: Flags [S], seq 1656210645, win 16384, options [mss 1440,wscale 0,eol], length 0 But the biggest problem is that RR#1 can't seem to get back to you. Could you check your filters for IPv6, particularly with reguard to ND facing the route servers? There are no filters being run on the RR machines. (ssh et. al filtering is handled upstream). -- Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> ~.~ ipHouse ~.~ Network Engineer/Provisioning/Jack of all Trades

June 1, 2016

Fwd: Route Server #1 - IPv6

by Jason Hanke

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Nathan Beard <nbeard(a)stellarllc.net> Date: Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 8:25 AM Subject: Route Server #1 - IPv6 To: peering(a)micemn.net Is there a particular reason why the IPv6 address for route server #1 is no longer reachable following the upgrades that were completed on the night of the 22nd? My IPv6 peering session to the first route server has been stuck in 'Active' state since right around that time and the IPv6 address is also not directly reachable (while route server #2 works fine): // BGP state for route server #1 session // 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1 0 53679 1675496 328107 0 0 0 1w2d Active // Ping to route server #1 // RP/0/RSP0/CPU0:STELLAR-511-ASR9006#ping ipv6 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:504:27::d1af:0:1, timeout is 2 seconds: ..... Success rate is 0 percent (0/5) // Ping to route server #2 // RP/0/RSP0/CPU0:STELLAR-511-ASR9006#ping ipv6 2001:504:27::d1af:0:2 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:504:27::d1af:0:2, timeout is 2 seconds: !!!!! Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 1/1/1 ms Please let me know when you have an update. Thanks! -- Nathan Beard Network Engineer nbeard(a)stellarllc.net (218) 820-7636 -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

June 1, 2016

Re: www.micemn.net links

by Richard Laager

Thanks everyone for the fixes! I pushed the changes you three sent: On 05/27/2016 12:02 PM, Jonathan Stewart wrote: > http://micemn.net/resources.html > The link to PeeringDB is broken, since peeringDB went to 2.0. > http://micemn.net/history.html > The link to Cologix 511 is broken. On 05/27/2016 01:22 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > To add onto what Jonathan discovered I've also found the footer nav bar > contains a link to the old PeeringDB URL as well. > > Additionally I found that on the participants page the link to the > Northern Lights Gigapop organization doesn't work. On 05/27/2016 01:33 PM, David Farmer wrote: > For now, please point at > https://it.umn.edu/northern-lights-gigapop-introduction -- Richard

May 27, 2016

Re: www.micemn.net links

by David Farmer

For now, please point at https://it.umn.edu/northern-lights-gigapop-introduction I'll look at getting www.northernlights.gigapop.net redirected there too, but that will probablly take a bit. Thanks. On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Justin Krejci <JKrejci(a)usinternet.com> wrote: > To add onto what Jonathan discovered I've also found the footer nav bar > contains a link to the old PeeringDB URL as well. > > Additionally I found that on the participants page the link to the Northern > Lights Gigapop organization doesn't work. I am not sure if there is a web > server issue at the UMN or if the target URL > (http://www.northernlights.gigapop.net/) is just out of date but I get a TCP > reset when attempting to connect on port 80. > > dig snip > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > www.northernlights.gigapop.net. 17743 IN CNAME nlg.webhotel.umn.edu. > nlg.webhotel.umn.edu. 17743 IN A 160.94.254.29 > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: MICE Discuss [MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] on behalf of Jonathan > Stewart [jonathan.stewart(a)GMAIL.COM] > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 12:02 PM > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] www.micemn.net links > > Hi, > > I was browsing the www.micemn.net site, and tripped over some 404s. > > On this page: > http://micemn.net/resources.html > The link to PeeringDB is broken, since peeringDB went to 2.0. The correct > link is: > https://www.peeringdb.com/ix/446 > > On this page: > http://micemn.net/history.html > The link to Cologix 511 is broken. It seems it should be: > http://www.cologix.com/data-centers/minneapolis/min1/ > > Hope this message reaches the right people, > > Jonathan > > ________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > ________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================

May 27, 2016

Re: www.micemn.net links

by Justin Krejci

To add onto what Jonathan discovered I've also found the footer nav bar contains a link to the old PeeringDB URL as well. Additionally I found that on the participants page the link to the Northern Lights Gigapop organization doesn't work. I am not sure if there is a web server issue at the UMN or if the target URL (http://www.northernlights.gigapop.net/) is just out of date but I get a TCP reset when attempting to connect on port 80. dig snip ;; ANSWER SECTION: www.northernlights.gigapop.net. 17743 IN CNAME nlg.webhotel.umn.edu. nlg.webhotel.umn.edu. 17743 IN A 160.94.254.29 ________________________________ From: MICE Discuss [MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] on behalf of Jonathan Stewart [jonathan.stewart(a)GMAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 12:02 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] www.micemn.net links Hi, I was browsing the www.micemn.net<http://www.micemn.net> site, and tripped over some 404s. On this page: http://micemn.net/resources.html The link to PeeringDB is broken, since peeringDB went to 2.0. The correct link is: https://www.peeringdb.com/ix/446 On this page: http://micemn.net/history.html The link to Cologix 511 is broken. It seems it should be: http://www.cologix.com/data-centers/minneapolis/min1/ Hope this message reaches the right people, Jonathan ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

May 27, 2016

www.micemn.net links

by Jonathan Stewart

Hi, I was browsing the www.micemn.net site, and tripped over some 404s. On this page: http://micemn.net/resources.html The link to PeeringDB is broken, since peeringDB went to 2.0. The correct link is: https://www.peeringdb.com/ix/446 On this page: http://micemn.net/history.html The link to Cologix 511 is broken. It seems it should be: http://www.cologix.com/data-centers/minneapolis/min1/ Hope this message reaches the right people, Jonathan

May 27, 2016

Re: Route Server BGP communities (& OS upgrades) - 5/22/2016

by Andrew Hoyos

> On May 22, 2016, at 11:40 PM, Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> wrote: > > This maintenance is complete. > > *) Community phase1 support with MICE community stripping at the end > *) OS patches & software updates. Fully up to date now. Thanks Doug! This will be super helpful for the community (pun intended)! -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com

May 23, 2016

Re: Route Server BGP communities (& OS upgrades) - 5/22/2016

by Mike Horwath

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 11:40:57PM -0500, Doug McIntyre wrote: > This maintenance is complete. Awesome! -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG

May 23, 2016

Re: Route Server BGP communities (& OS upgrades) - 5/22/2016

by Doug McIntyre

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 11:11:38AM -0500, Doug McIntyre wrote: > I plan on implementing this MICE site wide on Sunday, 5/22/2016, starting at > around 10:00PM - 11:59PM. This maintenance is complete. *) Community phase1 support with MICE community stripping at the end *) OS patches & software updates. Fully up to date now. Everything looks good to me, number of routes roughly the same start to finish, traffic load is swinging down, but it does this time of night as well. -- Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> ~.~ ipHouse ~.~ Network Engineer/Provisioning/Jack of all Trades

May 23, 2016

Re: Route Server BGP communities (& OS upgrades) - 5/22/2016

by Richard Laager

I've pushed the changes. I did reword the descriptions, and added some explanatory prose, with examples. Feedback and/or patches are always welcome. http://micemn.net/technical.html I wonder if I should break out the port configuration stuff and the communities into separate pages. I'm not sure which is worse: a longer page or another level of pages/links. -- Richard

May 19, 2016