- mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Reid Fishler

Tell that to Europe, where the market has been changed by some of the LARGER guys. Reid On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 12:27 PM Aaron Wendel <aaron(a)wholesaleinternet.net> wrote: > I think the landscape of peering is changing. Traditionally peering > enables lower latency and better performance by keeping local traffic > local. While that's still the case, I see more and more people looking > at remote peering as a way to gain more granularity in traffic > engineering. There's a large demand in the KC market for peering > outside the market for just that. > > SIX is just about up in KC (F You Lumen... 6 months to do an XC in your > own facility?), DE-CIX is coming to KC (active but not announced yet) > and others are in the works. There were a lot of discussions at the > KCIX table about how these exchanges coming into KC would affect the > local peering. The answer seems to be, "Not at all." The use cases > between local peering and remote peering are different enough that they > can coexist without market dilution. > > In the future, I believe IXs will be seen more like mini, focused ISPs > used by organizations looking to branch out closer to the edge where > their customers are concentrated. > > Aaron > > > > > On 3/24/2022 11:53 PM, Reid Fishler wrote: > > The answer is somewhere in the middle. We do whats best for the > > exchange, and for the internet in general. There are MANY things where > > this is what was done by the community. Honest question...if someone > > wants to put an extension in Rio, Brazil, do we let them? How about in > > South Africa? Is there a line? An exchange has a purpose, and thats to > > get everyone local to each other, on one fabric...otherwise we are > > just making Cogents IX thing they sell, or any one of the number of > > global fabrics. At SOME point we need to say enough is enough. I am > > NOT saying we are there yet, but to allow EVERYTHING is a bit too much > > in the other direction. > > > > Reid > > > > > > Reid > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 12:44 AM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: > > > > I completely agree that the number of people who know very little > > about BGP is growing quickly, the real question is how do you deal > > with this problem. Do you not permit things across the board > > because of this, meaning that the opportunity is lost for the > > people that understand what they are doing? Or do you put as many > > reasonable precautions in place so that when someone screws up, it > > mostly just impacts them, and all of the other members maintain > > granular control? > > > > *From:*MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] *On > > Behalf Of *Reid Fishler > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2022 9:12 PM > > *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > > *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy > > > > The issue is there are going to be more and more networks that are > > buying these peering services that don't always know what they > > are... Either by services, or because 'someone told me to'... Its > > not always those in the know that buy these things... Sometimes > > it's networks that DON'T know. > > > > Reid > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 10:04 PM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> > wrote: > > > > I understand the point a little better now. I would say it > > depends on the specific type of CDN. The more traditional > > ones like Cloudflare and Akamai it would not be a huge > > disincentive because they market themselves based on how > > close/low latency they are to the end user. Other CDNs that > > are delivering more of their own content like Netflix/Google > > would be more grateful for the free transport, and care less > > about the added latency (assuming no loss). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On > > Behalf Of Richard Laager > > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 8:46 PM > > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy > > > > On 3/24/22 18:00, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > > > As for a disincentive for CDN's to connect, I have only seen > > the opposite. Most CDN's will only accept a connection to the > > core. The only time I have seen them connect to a remote was > > for a secondary connection to gain switch diversity. > > > > I wasn't talking about CDNs connecting to remotes. The > > concern, or at > > least how I understood it, was: Imagine we put a MICE > > extension in city > > X. In the immediate term, that's great, as now networks in > > city X can > > get content from Minneapolis CDNs. But in the longer-term, it > > may create > > a disincentive for CDNs to go to city X. > > > > Counter-point: Whether CDNs come to city X is not our problem. > > > > -- > > Richard > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > > > > > > > > -- > > Reid Fishler > > Senior Director > > Hurricane Electric > > +1-510-580-4178 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > > > > -- > ================================================================ > Aaron Wendel > Chief Technical Officer > Wholesale Internet, Inc. (AS 32097) > (816)550-9030 > http://www.wholesaleinternet.com > ================================================================ > > -- Reid Fishler Senior Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Jay Hanke

This would be a great panel discussion at the Peering Summit this summer. Reid/Aaron are you guys up for that? I'll find one non-mice guy to round it out. -- Jay Hanke, President South Front Networks jayhanke(a)southfront.io Phone 612-204-0000

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Aaron Wendel

I think the landscape of peering is changing. Traditionally peering enables lower latency and better performance by keeping local traffic local. While that's still the case, I see more and more people looking at remote peering as a way to gain more granularity in traffic engineering. There's a large demand in the KC market for peering outside the market for just that. SIX is just about up in KC (F You Lumen... 6 months to do an XC in your own facility?), DE-CIX is coming to KC (active but not announced yet) and others are in the works. There were a lot of discussions at the KCIX table about how these exchanges coming into KC would affect the local peering. The answer seems to be, "Not at all." The use cases between local peering and remote peering are different enough that they can coexist without market dilution. In the future, I believe IXs will be seen more like mini, focused ISPs used by organizations looking to branch out closer to the edge where their customers are concentrated. Aaron On 3/24/2022 11:53 PM, Reid Fishler wrote: > The answer is somewhere in the middle. We do whats best for the > exchange, and for the internet in general. There are MANY things where > this is what was done by the community. Honest question...if someone > wants to put an extension in Rio, Brazil, do we let them? How about in > South Africa? Is there a line? An exchange has a purpose, and thats to > get everyone local to each other, on one fabric...otherwise we are > just making Cogents IX thing they sell, or any one of the number of > global fabrics. At SOME point we need to say enough is enough. I am > NOT saying we are there yet, but to allow EVERYTHING is a bit too much > in the other direction. > > Reid > > > Reid > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 12:44 AM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: > > I completely agree that the number of people who know very little > about BGP is growing quickly, the real question is how do you deal > with this problem. Do you not permit things across the board > because of this, meaning that the opportunity is lost for the > people that understand what they are doing? Or do you put as many > reasonable precautions in place so that when someone screws up, it > mostly just impacts them, and all of the other members maintain > granular control? > > *From:*MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] *On > Behalf Of *Reid Fishler > *Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2022 9:12 PM > *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy > > The issue is there are going to be more and more networks that are > buying these peering services that don't always know what they > are... Either by services, or because 'someone told me to'... Its > not always those in the know that buy these things... Sometimes > it's networks that DON'T know. > > Reid > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 10:04 PM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: > > I understand the point a little better now. I would say it > depends on the specific type of CDN. The more traditional > ones like Cloudflare and Akamai it would not be a huge > disincentive because they market themselves based on how > close/low latency they are to the end user. Other CDNs that > are delivering more of their own content like Netflix/Google > would be more grateful for the free transport, and care less > about the added latency (assuming no loss). > > -----Original Message----- > From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On > Behalf Of Richard Laager > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 8:46 PM > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy > > On 3/24/22 18:00, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > > As for a disincentive for CDN's to connect, I have only seen > the opposite. Most CDN's will only accept a connection to the > core. The only time I have seen them connect to a remote was > for a secondary connection to gain switch diversity. > > I wasn't talking about CDNs connecting to remotes. The > concern, or at > least how I understood it, was: Imagine we put a MICE > extension in city > X. In the immediate term, that's great, as now networks in > city X can > get content from Minneapolis CDNs. But in the longer-term, it > may create > a disincentive for CDNs to go to city X. > > Counter-point: Whether CDNs come to city X is not our problem. > > -- > Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > > > > -- > Reid Fishler > Senior Director > Hurricane Electric > +1-510-580-4178 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> > -- ================================================================ Aaron Wendel Chief Technical Officer Wholesale Internet, Inc. (AS 32097) (816)550-9030 http://www.wholesaleinternet.com ================================================================

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Reid Fishler

Unfortunately, alot now. They hire consultants to run things for them...and want to keep those hours VERY low if they can help it. Some of the people I have talked to have BGP/Network consultants from MSP! Reid On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 12:02 PM Aaron Wendel <aaron(a)wholesaleinternet.net> wrote: > How many people who have their own ASNs and IP space know nothing about > BGP? Of course the answer isn't zero but I'd have to think it's pretty > low. > > Aaron > > > On 3/24/2022 11:44 PM, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > > > > I completely agree that the number of people who know very little > > about BGP is growing quickly, the real question is how do you deal > > with this problem. Do you not permit things across the board because > > of this, meaning that the opportunity is lost for the people that > > understand what they are doing? Or do you put as many reasonable > > precautions in place so that when someone screws up, it mostly just > > impacts them, and all of the other members maintain granular control? > > > > -- Reid Fishler Senior Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Aaron Wendel

How many people who have their own ASNs and IP space know nothing about BGP? Of course the answer isn't zero but I'd have to think it's pretty low. Aaron On 3/24/2022 11:44 PM, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > > I completely agree that the number of people who know very little > about BGP is growing quickly, the real question is how do you deal > with this problem. Do you not permit things across the board because > of this, meaning that the opportunity is lost for the people that > understand what they are doing? Or do you put as many reasonable > precautions in place so that when someone screws up, it mostly just > impacts them, and all of the other members maintain granular control? >

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Dean Bahls

Reasonableness. Keep that in mind and it’ll all be good. If it’s reasonable in the board’s mind to place an extension in Rio, Brazil or South Africa, then that’s what should be done. I would hope that the board doesn’t think that’s the case. Yes, there is a line, or a location….somewhere reasonably close/far away from Minneapolis. I don’t know where that is, but in general, I think you guys have a feeling for it. Dean From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Reid Fishler Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 11:53 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy The answer is somewhere in the middle. We do whats best for the exchange, and for the internet in general. There are MANY things where this is what was done by the community. Honest question...if someone wants to put an extension in Rio, Brazil, do we let them? How about in South Africa? Is there a line? An exchange has a purpose, and thats to get everyone local to each other, on one fabric...otherwise we are just making Cogents IX thing they sell, or any one of the number of global fabrics. At SOME point we need to say enough is enough. I am NOT saying we are there yet, but to allow EVERYTHING is a bit too much in the other direction. Reid Reid On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 12:44 AM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com<mailto:jlumby@mnvoip.com>> wrote: I completely agree that the number of people who know very little about BGP is growing quickly, the real question is how do you deal with this problem. Do you not permit things across the board because of this, meaning that the opportunity is lost for the people that understand what they are doing? Or do you put as many reasonable precautions in place so that when someone screws up, it mostly just impacts them, and all of the other members maintain granular control? From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>] On Behalf Of Reid Fishler Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 9:12 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy The issue is there are going to be more and more networks that are buying these peering services that don't always know what they are... Either by services, or because 'someone told me to'... Its not always those in the know that buy these things... Sometimes it's networks that DON'T know. Reid On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 10:04 PM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com<mailto:jlumby@mnvoip.com>> wrote: I understand the point a little better now. I would say it depends on the specific type of CDN. The more traditional ones like Cloudflare and Akamai it would not be a huge disincentive because they market themselves based on how close/low latency they are to the end user. Other CDNs that are delivering more of their own content like Netflix/Google would be more grateful for the free transport, and care less about the added latency (assuming no loss). -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>] On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 8:46 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy On 3/24/22 18:00, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > As for a disincentive for CDN's to connect, I have only seen the opposite. Most CDN's will only accept a connection to the core. The only time I have seen them connect to a remote was for a secondary connection to gain switch diversity. I wasn't talking about CDNs connecting to remotes. The concern, or at least how I understood it, was: Imagine we put a MICE extension in city X. In the immediate term, that's great, as now networks in city X can get content from Minneapolis CDNs. But in the longer-term, it may create a disincentive for CDNs to go to city X. Counter-point: Whether CDNs come to city X is not our problem. -- Richard ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 -- Reid Fishler Senior Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Reid Fishler

The answer is somewhere in the middle. We do whats best for the exchange, and for the internet in general. There are MANY things where this is what was done by the community. Honest question...if someone wants to put an extension in Rio, Brazil, do we let them? How about in South Africa? Is there a line? An exchange has a purpose, and thats to get everyone local to each other, on one fabric...otherwise we are just making Cogents IX thing they sell, or any one of the number of global fabrics. At SOME point we need to say enough is enough. I am NOT saying we are there yet, but to allow EVERYTHING is a bit too much in the other direction. Reid Reid On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 12:44 AM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: > I completely agree that the number of people who know very little about > BGP is growing quickly, the real question is how do you deal with this > problem. Do you not permit things across the board because of this, > meaning that the opportunity is lost for the people that understand what > they are doing? Or do you put as many reasonable precautions in place so > that when someone screws up, it mostly just impacts them, and all of the > other members maintain granular control? > > > > *From:* MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] *On Behalf > Of *Reid Fishler > *Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2022 9:12 PM > *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy > > > > The issue is there are going to be more and more networks that are buying > these peering services that don't always know what they are... Either by > services, or because 'someone told me to'... Its not always those in the > know that buy these things... Sometimes it's networks that DON'T know. > > > > Reid > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 10:04 PM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: > > I understand the point a little better now. I would say it depends on the > specific type of CDN. The more traditional ones like Cloudflare and Akamai > it would not be a huge disincentive because they market themselves based on > how close/low latency they are to the end user. Other CDNs that are > delivering more of their own content like Netflix/Google would be more > grateful for the free transport, and care less about the added latency > (assuming no loss). > > -----Original Message----- > From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of > Richard Laager > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 8:46 PM > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy > > On 3/24/22 18:00, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > > As for a disincentive for CDN's to connect, I have only seen the > opposite. Most CDN's will only accept a connection to the core. The only > time I have seen them connect to a remote was for a secondary connection to > gain switch diversity. > > I wasn't talking about CDNs connecting to remotes. The concern, or at > least how I understood it, was: Imagine we put a MICE extension in city > X. In the immediate term, that's great, as now networks in city X can > get content from Minneapolis CDNs. But in the longer-term, it may create > a disincentive for CDNs to go to city X. > > Counter-point: Whether CDNs come to city X is not our problem. > > -- > Richard > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Reid Fishler Senior Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Jeremy Lumby

I completely agree that the number of people who know very little about BGP is growing quickly, the real question is how do you deal with this problem. Do you not permit things across the board because of this, meaning that the opportunity is lost for the people that understand what they are doing? Or do you put as many reasonable precautions in place so that when someone screws up, it mostly just impacts them, and all of the other members maintain granular control? From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Reid Fishler Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 9:12 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy The issue is there are going to be more and more networks that are buying these peering services that don't always know what they are... Either by services, or because 'someone told me to'... Its not always those in the know that buy these things... Sometimes it's networks that DON'T know. Reid On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 10:04 PM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: I understand the point a little better now. I would say it depends on the specific type of CDN. The more traditional ones like Cloudflare and Akamai it would not be a huge disincentive because they market themselves based on how close/low latency they are to the end user. Other CDNs that are delivering more of their own content like Netflix/Google would be more grateful for the free transport, and care less about the added latency (assuming no loss). -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 8:46 PM To:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy On 3/24/22 18:00, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > As for a disincentive for CDN's to connect, I have only seen the opposite. Most CDN's will only accept a connection to the core. The only time I have seen them connect to a remote was for a secondary connection to gain switch diversity. I wasn't talking about CDNs connecting to remotes. The concern, or at least how I understood it, was: Imagine we put a MICE extension in city X. In the immediate term, that's great, as now networks in city X can get content from Minneapolis CDNs. But in the longer-term, it may create a disincentive for CDNs to go to city X. Counter-point: Whether CDNs come to city X is not our problem. -- Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Reid Fishler

The issue is there are going to be more and more networks that are buying these peering services that don't always know what they are... Either by services, or because 'someone told me to'... Its not always those in the know that buy these things... Sometimes it's networks that DON'T know. Reid On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 10:04 PM Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: > I understand the point a little better now. I would say it depends on the > specific type of CDN. The more traditional ones like Cloudflare and Akamai > it would not be a huge disincentive because they market themselves based on > how close/low latency they are to the end user. Other CDNs that are > delivering more of their own content like Netflix/Google would be more > grateful for the free transport, and care less about the added latency > (assuming no loss). > > -----Original Message----- > From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of > Richard Laager > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 8:46 PM > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy > > On 3/24/22 18:00, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > > As for a disincentive for CDN's to connect, I have only seen the > opposite. Most CDN's will only accept a connection to the core. The only > time I have seen them connect to a remote was for a secondary connection to > gain switch diversity. > > I wasn't talking about CDNs connecting to remotes. The concern, or at > least how I understood it, was: Imagine we put a MICE extension in city > X. In the immediate term, that's great, as now networks in city X can > get content from Minneapolis CDNs. But in the longer-term, it may create > a disincentive for CDNs to go to city X. > > Counter-point: Whether CDNs come to city X is not our problem. > > -- > Richard > >

March 25, 2022

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

by Jeremy Lumby

I understand the point a little better now. I would say it depends on the specific type of CDN. The more traditional ones like Cloudflare and Akamai it would not be a huge disincentive because they market themselves based on how close/low latency they are to the end user. Other CDNs that are delivering more of their own content like Netflix/Google would be more grateful for the free transport, and care less about the added latency (assuming no loss). -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 8:46 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy On 3/24/22 18:00, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > As for a disincentive for CDN's to connect, I have only seen the opposite. Most CDN's will only accept a connection to the core. The only time I have seen them connect to a remote was for a secondary connection to gain switch diversity. I wasn't talking about CDNs connecting to remotes. The concern, or at least how I understood it, was: Imagine we put a MICE extension in city X. In the immediate term, that's great, as now networks in city X can get content from Minneapolis CDNs. But in the longer-term, it may create a disincentive for CDNs to go to city X. Counter-point: Whether CDNs come to city X is not our problem. -- Richard

March 25, 2022