- mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Justin Krejci

On Mon, 2012-07-23 at 14:46 +0000, Mike Horwath wrote: > Right now most everything is donated. > > I donated the first switch (ipHouse). > > Doug and Jay take care of switches, Doug has been doing the BGP setup. > > I still have one stats system running, USI has another (with weathermap laded). > > Nevin donated two physical servers that I set up got bird routers. > > Jay recruits people. > > Steve did DNS registration and hosting. > > FWR (now Cologix) gave/gives space and power. > > Nevin donates web space. > > And other things I missed. Numbers from ARIN (IP addresses currently from WIN/Airstream) > > Our costs for Mice? > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Justin Krejci

I think the point of the question was "If MICE were to be actually paying for all of the currently donated/loaned equipment and services... what is that dollar amount?" On Mon, 2012-07-23 at 09:42 -0500, Jay Hanke wrote: > On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Shaun Carlson > <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> wrote: > > Nevin, that's a great breakdown and thanks. I'm still curious, > however, as to what the actual underlying costs for the > exchange are today... > > > > Does anyone have that data? > > > Zero, everything is donated or on loan. > > > Jay > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Reid Fishler

The board is meeting with Cologix to explain how MICE is important to them. They do seem to get it... Reie On Jul 23, 2012 11:02 AM, "Matthew Beckwell" <matthewb(a)aitech.net> wrote: > Is there still a time limit on the FWR/Cologix space and power donation? > We could start by assuming we need to take over a rack and 2 power > circuits ourselves. > > $15,300 / Yr. If my price sheet is still accurate. > > ~Matthew > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of > Mike Horwath > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:46 AM > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Juniper Upgrade > > Right now most everything is donated. > > I donated the first switch (ipHouse). > > Doug and Jay take care of switches, Doug has been doing the BGP setup. > > I still have one stats system running, USI has another (with weathermap > laded). > > Nevin donated two physical servers that I set up got bird routers. > > Jay recruits people. > > Steve did DNS registration and hosting. > > FWR (now Cologix) gave/gives space and power. > > Nevin donates web space. > > And other things I missed. > > Our costs for Mice? > > -- > Mike Horwath via iPad 2, electric boogaloo! > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Matthew Beckwell

Is there still a time limit on the FWR/Cologix space and power donation? We could start by assuming we need to take over a rack and 2 power circuits ourselves. $15,300 / Yr. If my price sheet is still accurate. ~Matthew -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Mike Horwath Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:46 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Juniper Upgrade Right now most everything is donated. I donated the first switch (ipHouse). Doug and Jay take care of switches, Doug has been doing the BGP setup. I still have one stats system running, USI has another (with weathermap laded). Nevin donated two physical servers that I set up got bird routers. Jay recruits people. Steve did DNS registration and hosting. FWR (now Cologix) gave/gives space and power. Nevin donates web space. And other things I missed. Our costs for Mice? -- Mike Horwath via iPad 2, electric boogaloo! ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Brian Mort

So what we would need to start then would be how much would that equipment have cost to purchase, how much is donated labor and etc. If MICE starts receiving 1/4 Million in annual revenue things would dramatically change. On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Mike Horwath <drechsau(a)iphouse.net> wrote: > Right now most everything is donated. > > I donated the first switch (ipHouse). > > Doug and Jay take care of switches, Doug has been doing the BGP setup. > > I still have one stats system running, USI has another (with weathermap > laded). > > Nevin donated two physical servers that I set up got bird routers. > > Jay recruits people. > > Steve did DNS registration and hosting. > > FWR (now Cologix) gave/gives space and power. > > Nevin donates web space. > > And other things I missed. > > Our costs for Mice? > > -- > Mike Horwath via iPad 2, electric boogaloo! > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Brian Mort Network Engineer IV (ENA,ENS,ECDP) visit our website: arvig <http://www.arvig.com> (218) 346-8231 brian.mort(a)arvig.com ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Mike Horwath

Right now most everything is donated. I donated the first switch (ipHouse). Doug and Jay take care of switches, Doug has been doing the BGP setup. I still have one stats system running, USI has another (with weathermap laded). Nevin donated two physical servers that I set up got bird routers. Jay recruits people. Steve did DNS registration and hosting. FWR (now Cologix) gave/gives space and power. Nevin donates web space. And other things I missed. Our costs for Mice? -- Mike Horwath via iPad 2, electric boogaloo! ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Jay Hanke

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Shaun Carlson <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com>wrote: > Nevin, that's a great breakdown and thanks. I'm still curious, however, as > to what the actual underlying costs for the exchange are today... > > Does anyone have that data? > Zero, everything is donated or on loan. Jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Shaun Carlson

Nevin, that's a great breakdown and thanks. I'm still curious, however, as to what the actual underlying costs for the exchange are today... Does anyone have that data? s *Shaun Carlson *Senior Network Engineer | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | contact: protocol.by/scarlson em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Nevin Lyne <nevin(a)enginehosting.com>wrote: > I agree with others I don't think GigE port fees should be free, everyone > on the exchange is getting value. > > I am not directly connected to MICE myself, I have donated gear to get it > started, and I gain benefits from it every month. > > I would propose either quarterly or annual billing. > > GigE port = $225/quarter $900/annual ($75/month is the breakdown of course) > 10GE port = $600/quarter $2400/annual ($200/month is the breakdown here of > course :) > > 2nd port on on opposite 2nd switch for redundancy same price as first > port. Need more than 2nd GigE port move to 10GE not more GigE ports. > > I think ideal setup goal would be: > > 2 x EX4200 (96 GigE + each switch has optional 4 x GigE or 2 x 10GE port > expansion) > 2 x EX4500 (80 10GE + each switch has optional 2 x 4 port 10GE expansion > for total of 96 x 10GE) > > 25% occupation rate even across GigE & 10GE would be $1800 + 4800/month = > ~$80k annually > > 50% port occupation rate = ~$160k/yr > > 75% port occupation even across 100/1GE an 10GE ports is almost $250k/yr > > At the 25 to 50% port occupation levels there is easily enough income for > MICE to even branch to other MICE owned switches in logical area locations > that might be easier for some to cross connect into, sponsor tech events in > the area, 1 FTE to manage exchange work, etc. > > This would of course be outside any donations some might still make into > MICE, like I could easily see doing the equiv of a GigE port fee from my > own business as an indirect member of MICE to say I am a member of MICE on > my web site even. > > Seems logical, affordable and fairly easy to manage but just me. > > From a value stand point I pay 2x the above GigE port fee monthly for > parking in downtown Minneapolis and I get far more value from MICE then I > do the parking spot. > > -- Nevin Lyne > -- Founder / Director of Technology > -- Gippy's Internet Solutions, LLC. / EngineHosting.com > > On Saturday, July 21, 2012 9:25am, "Jay Hanke" < > jayhanke(a)MANKATONETWORKS.NET> said: > > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 12:28 AM, David Farmer <farmer(a)umn.edu> wrote: > > > >> Those are perfectly reasonable monthly numbers and not a problem. > However, > >> I know the University would prefer an annual charge. Less paperwork, > and > >> less accounting expenses, etc... So please make sure you provide that > as > >> option. Also, the University will probably want a contract and will > >> definitely need an invoice, net 90 generally. > >> > > > > I propose starting CY 2013: > > > > -1st 10/100/1000 port free > > -2nd 1G port ($1000/year) > > -10G port ($2000/year) > > > > Newly paying members would pay for each full quarter they have service. > > Connect in June pay 50%, Connect in Jan pay 75%. They would then go on to > > calendar billing. > > > > Accounting/billing to be figured out by the Steering Committee. Any cash > > donations between now and then will be applied to the member account. > > > > jay > > > > ######################################################################## > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Nevin Lyne

I agree with others I don't think GigE port fees should be free, everyone on the exchange is getting value. I am not directly connected to MICE myself, I have donated gear to get it started, and I gain benefits from it every month. I would propose either quarterly or annual billing. GigE port = $225/quarter $900/annual ($75/month is the breakdown of course) 10GE port = $600/quarter $2400/annual ($200/month is the breakdown here of course :) 2nd port on on opposite 2nd switch for redundancy same price as first port. Need more than 2nd GigE port move to 10GE not more GigE ports. I think ideal setup goal would be: 2 x EX4200 (96 GigE + each switch has optional 4 x GigE or 2 x 10GE port expansion) 2 x EX4500 (80 10GE + each switch has optional 2 x 4 port 10GE expansion for total of 96 x 10GE) 25% occupation rate even across GigE & 10GE would be $1800 + 4800/month = ~$80k annually 50% port occupation rate = ~$160k/yr 75% port occupation even across 100/1GE an 10GE ports is almost $250k/yr At the 25 to 50% port occupation levels there is easily enough income for MICE to even branch to other MICE owned switches in logical area locations that might be easier for some to cross connect into, sponsor tech events in the area, 1 FTE to manage exchange work, etc. This would of course be outside any donations some might still make into MICE, like I could easily see doing the equiv of a GigE port fee from my own business as an indirect member of MICE to say I am a member of MICE on my web site even. Seems logical, affordable and fairly easy to manage but just me. From a value stand point I pay 2x the above GigE port fee monthly for parking in downtown Minneapolis and I get far more value from MICE then I do the parking spot. -- Nevin Lyne -- Founder / Director of Technology -- Gippy's Internet Solutions, LLC. / EngineHosting.com On Saturday, July 21, 2012 9:25am, "Jay Hanke" <jayhanke(a)MANKATONETWORKS.NET> said: > On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 12:28 AM, David Farmer <farmer(a)umn.edu> wrote: > >> Those are perfectly reasonable monthly numbers and not a problem. However, >> I know the University would prefer an annual charge. Less paperwork, and >> less accounting expenses, etc... So please make sure you provide that as >> option. Also, the University will probably want a contract and will >> definitely need an invoice, net 90 generally. >> > > I propose starting CY 2013: > > -1st 10/100/1000 port free > -2nd 1G port ($1000/year) > -10G port ($2000/year) > > Newly paying members would pay for each full quarter they have service. > Connect in June pay 50%, Connect in Jan pay 75%. They would then go on to > calendar billing. > > Accounting/billing to be figured out by the Steering Committee. Any cash > donations between now and then will be applied to the member account. > > jay > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 22, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Jeremy Lumby

As a small business owner that typically only exchanges an average max of a couple megabit per day on my 1 gig copper MICE port, I still feel I should be paying a maintenance fee. I can understand how free attracts new members, however maybe it should only be free for the first year. Lets face it, if anyone who is contemplating the fee would ever be a serious member, they know the costs associated with good network equipment, and the proper environment to run it in. From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Shaun Carlson Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 3:56 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Juniper Upgrade I guess that's what I was really asking. In understand the donations, etc... But what do those amount to (i.e. what are our true, underlying costs) The growth rate is important as well... I'd like to understand our past growth rate and then we should try to estimate our future growth rate so we can be sure to build in enough overhead to cover that. s // SIGNED // Shaun Carlson --------------- Please excuse my grammar and typos, this was sent from my mobile device. On Jul 21, 2012, at 15:40, "Mike Bushard, Jr" <mike.bushard(a)ARVIG.COM> wrote: I think we need to look at what the costs should be, not what they are today. Mike Bushard Jr | Network Engineer IV | Arvig | 320.256.0178 direct | 320.429.0837 Mobile Sent from my Verizon Wireless DROID RAZR by Motorola Please excuse short responses and spelling errors. On Jul 21, 2012 3:24 PM, "Shaun Carlson" <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> wrote: What are MICE's current operating costs and what do the growth rates over the past 24-36 months look like? s // SIGNED // Shaun Carlson --------------- Please excuse my grammar and typos, this was sent from my mobile device. On Jul 21, 2012, at 15:20, Mike Horwath <drechsau(a)IPHOUSE.NET> wrote: > On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 12:13:49PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: >> I would not want to see the 10G customers subsidizing free 1G >> connections. I have no problem with the idea of $150/10G (though >> many would likely prefer an annual $1,800). However, I would suggest >> that if you are charging $150/10G, at least $20/1G ($240/1G/yr) >> would also be appropriate. (IIRC, the 10G ports are not 10x the cost >> of the 1G ports and there's some amount of overhead for maintaining >> the account, etc. This would also serve as somewhat of an incentive >> for people to move to 10G instead of multiple 1G ports which I think >> is better for the exchange and its participants. > > I've always thought the idea of charging for the 1Gbps ports to be > something that should be done but originally I was in the minority. > > Free is cool too, though :) > > -- > Mike Horwath ipHouse - Welcome home! drechsau(a)iphouse.net > The universe is an island, surrounded by whatever it is > that surrounds universes. - Berkeley Fortune > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 21, 2012