- mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Mike O'Connor

on of the tricky things to coming up with a fee is the "what to include in the cost?" question. right now, MICE is making Stone Soup out of the time, energy, thought, leadership, connections, rack space and hardware of it's members. i bet that if one were to put a value on all of those things, we'd find that allocating that number across ports/bandwidth would result in a hefty number. one question -- is MICE ever likely to get to a point where it needs new/current gear? or can it live on cast-offs for a good long time yet? if cast offs will work, then i'd lobby for continuing that tradition so that the cooperative can continue as a zero-cost affair for as long as possible. of course, guilt-tripping the orgs that don't pull their weight (pleas for cast-off gear, more help, more participation, etc.) would remain on the table. :-) mikey PS, here's the wikipedia version of Stone Soup for those of you who haven't heard the tale before. Some travelers come to a village, carrying nothing more than an empty cooking pot. Upon their arrival, the villagers are unwilling to share any of their food stores with the hungry travellers. Then the travellers go to a stream and fill the pot with water, drop a large stone in it, and place it over a fire. One of the villagers becomes curious and asks what they are doing. The travellers answer that they are making "stone soup", which tastes wonderful, although it still needs a little bit of garnish to improve the flavour, which they are missing. The villager does not mind parting with a few carrots to help them out, so that gets added to the soup. Another villager walks by, inquiring about the pot, and the travellers again mention their stone soup which has not reached its full potential yet. The villager hands them a little bit of seasoning to help them out. More and more villagers walk by, each adding another ingredient. Finally, a delicious and nourishing pot of soup is enjoyed by all. - - - - - - - - - phone 651-647-6109 fax 866-280-2356 web http://www.haven2.com handle OConnorStP (ID for public places like Twitter, Facebook, Google, etc.) ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 21, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by David Farmer

Those are perfectly reasonable monthly numbers and not a problem. However, I know the University would prefer an annual charge. Less paperwork, and less accounting expenses, etc... So please make sure you provide that as option. Also, the University will probably want a contract and will definitely need an invoice, net 90 generally. -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 =============================================== On Jul 21, 2012, at 0:03, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)HE.NET> wrote: > There is no reason why a SMALL fee cannot be charged by the exchange to recover costs. This is not a for-profit enterprise, but I am sure $100-200 for the traffic most are getting beats anyones transit costs... > > Reid > > On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Jay Hanke <jayhanke(a)mankatonetworks.net> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Owen DeLong <owend(a)he.net> wrote: > For MICE to be viable as an exchange long term, connections to MICE need to cover upgrades like this as well as maintenance, etc. > > Agreed > > It's great that people are willing to donate hardware/money, but, I would like to see MICE develop a longer-term view of its own financial support where all members pay a fair share and we should be building up a reserve that can initially purchase any needed hardware that MICE doesn't own and later can provide for unforseen events. > > I have proposed to a number of members charging monthly or annually for 10G connections. The idea being that if you really need XE you're getting quite a bit of value from the exchange. > > I posted a poll on the linked in page and was rather taken back that ~30% felt there was no $ value in 10G ports. On the flip side, 70% thought a MICE 10G port was worth at least $150/month. > > Here's a link: > > http://www.linkedin.com/groups/How-much-is-MICE-10G-3000346.S.91293159?qid=… > > The last part of your statement is also very important. Being able to address things for we have failed to plan without affecting the service the exchange provides is critical to our ongoing usefulness. > > My back of the napkin, assuming we're paying for everything, puts us at an annual recurring need of about 15k. This doesn't include purchase of the initial switch and initial end-user ARIN address fees. > > Jay > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > > > -- > Reid Fishler > Director > Hurricane Electric > +1-510-580-4178 > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 21, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Reid Fishler

There is no reason why a SMALL fee cannot be charged by the exchange to recover costs. This is not a for-profit enterprise, but I am sure $100-200 for the traffic most are getting beats anyones transit costs... Reid On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Jay Hanke <jayhanke(a)mankatonetworks.net>wrote: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Owen DeLong <owend(a)he.net> wrote: > >> For MICE to be viable as an exchange long term, connections to MICE need >> to cover upgrades like this as well as maintenance, etc. >> > > Agreed > > >> It's great that people are willing to donate hardware/money, but, I would >> like to see MICE develop a longer-term view of its own financial support >> where all members pay a fair share and we should be building up a reserve >> that can initially purchase any needed hardware that MICE doesn't own and >> later can provide for unforseen events. >> > > I have proposed to a number of members charging monthly or annually for > 10G connections. The idea being that if you really need XE you're getting > quite a bit of value from the exchange. > > I posted a poll on the linked in page and was rather taken back that ~30% > felt there was no $ value in 10G ports. On the flip side, 70% thought a > MICE 10G port was worth at least $150/month. > > Here's a link: > > > http://www.linkedin.com/groups/How-much-is-MICE-10G-3000346.S.91293159?qid=… > > The last part of your statement is also very important. Being able to > address things for we have failed to plan without affecting the service the > exchange provides is critical to our ongoing usefulness. > > My back of the napkin, assuming we're paying for everything, puts us at an > annual recurring need of about 15k. This doesn't include purchase of the > initial switch and initial end-user ARIN address fees. > > Jay > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 21, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Jay Hanke

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Owen DeLong <owend(a)he.net> wrote: > For MICE to be viable as an exchange long term, connections to MICE need > to cover upgrades like this as well as maintenance, etc. > Agreed > It's great that people are willing to donate hardware/money, but, I would > like to see MICE develop a longer-term view of its own financial support > where all members pay a fair share and we should be building up a reserve > that can initially purchase any needed hardware that MICE doesn't own and > later can provide for unforseen events. > I have proposed to a number of members charging monthly or annually for 10G connections. The idea being that if you really need XE you're getting quite a bit of value from the exchange. I posted a poll on the linked in page and was rather taken back that ~30% felt there was no $ value in 10G ports. On the flip side, 70% thought a MICE 10G port was worth at least $150/month. Here's a link: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/How-much-is-MICE-10G-3000346.S.91293159?qid=… The last part of your statement is also very important. Being able to address things for we have failed to plan without affecting the service the exchange provides is critical to our ongoing usefulness. My back of the napkin, assuming we're paying for everything, puts us at an annual recurring need of about 15k. This doesn't include purchase of the initial switch and initial end-user ARIN address fees. Jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 21, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Shaun Carlson

This sounds like a great topic to revisit at our next MICE UG meeting. I seem to recall discussing this at the last one as well. s *Shaun Carlson *Senior Network Engineer | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | contact: protocol.by/scarlson em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: > ** > I agree with Owen > > ------------------------------ > *From:* MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] *On Behalf > Of *Owen DeLong > *Sent:* Friday, July 20, 2012 5:36 PM > *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET > *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Juniper Upgrade > > For MICE to be viable as an exchange long term, connections to MICE need > to cover upgrades like this as well as maintenance, etc. > > It's great that people are willing to donate hardware/money, but, I would > like to see MICE develop a longer-term view of its own financial support > where all members pay a fair share and we should be building up a reserve > that can initially purchase any needed hardware that MICE doesn't own and > later can provide for unforseen events. > > Owen > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Jay Hanke wrote: > > As you may be aware, a waiting list is starting to form for 10G ports on > the main switch. The Juniper switches in the core are on long term demo and > will need to be returned to the pool at some point. In addition, there are > members that are looking for 10G LAG connections to the main switch. > > I talked to Juniper and they will allow us to swap our existing stack of > EX4200's for a steeply discounted EX4500. > > http://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/switching/ex-series/ex4500/ > > The new switch would give us 40 1G/10G ports and the ability to add > additional shelves in the future with 128 Gb/s VC uplinks. If there was > sufficient interest and support I believe we could deploy a set out of the > gate to provide redundancy. The plan would be to move anyone with a > FastEthernet connection to one of the remote switches. > > After the trade in, the cost to MICE would be $4485 + $1158 (Next Day > Support) + any sales taxes (if any). > > MICE would own the switch. None of the current switches are owned by MICE > and their use is at the whim of their respective owners. This would prevent > any of the members from taking their ball and going home. > > We already have a pledge of $3000 for the upgrade from an existing MICE > member. > > Thanks, > > Jay > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 21, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Jeremy Lumby

I agree with Owen From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:36 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Juniper Upgrade For MICE to be viable as an exchange long term, connections to MICE need to cover upgrades like this as well as maintenance, etc. It's great that people are willing to donate hardware/money, but, I would like to see MICE develop a longer-term view of its own financial support where all members pay a fair share and we should be building up a reserve that can initially purchase any needed hardware that MICE doesn't own and later can provide for unforseen events. Owen On Jul 20, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Jay Hanke wrote: As you may be aware, a waiting list is starting to form for 10G ports on the main switch. The Juniper switches in the core are on long term demo and will need to be returned to the pool at some point. In addition, there are members that are looking for 10G LAG connections to the main switch. I talked to Juniper and they will allow us to swap our existing stack of EX4200's for a steeply discounted EX4500. http://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/switching/ex-series/ex4500/ The new switch would give us 40 1G/10G ports and the ability to add additional shelves in the future with 128 Gb/s VC uplinks. If there was sufficient interest and support I believe we could deploy a set out of the gate to provide redundancy. The plan would be to move anyone with a FastEthernet connection to one of the remote switches. After the trade in, the cost to MICE would be $4485 + $1158 (Next Day Support) + any sales taxes (if any). MICE would own the switch. None of the current switches are owned by MICE and their use is at the whim of their respective owners. This would prevent any of the members from taking their ball and going home. We already have a pledge of $3000 for the upgrade from an existing MICE member. Thanks, Jay To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 20, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Owen DeLong

For MICE to be viable as an exchange long term, connections to MICE need to cover upgrades like this as well as maintenance, etc. It's great that people are willing to donate hardware/money, but, I would like to see MICE develop a longer-term view of its own financial support where all members pay a fair share and we should be building up a reserve that can initially purchase any needed hardware that MICE doesn't own and later can provide for unforseen events. Owen On Jul 20, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Jay Hanke wrote: > As you may be aware, a waiting list is starting to form for 10G ports on the main switch. The Juniper switches in the core are on long term demo and will need to be returned to the pool at some point. In addition, there are members that are looking for 10G LAG connections to the main switch. > > I talked to Juniper and they will allow us to swap our existing stack of EX4200's for a steeply discounted EX4500. > > http://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/switching/ex-series/ex4500/ > > The new switch would give us 40 1G/10G ports and the ability to add additional shelves in the future with 128 Gb/s VC uplinks. If there was sufficient interest and support I believe we could deploy a set out of the gate to provide redundancy. The plan would be to move anyone with a FastEthernet connection to one of the remote switches. > > After the trade in, the cost to MICE would be $4485 + $1158 (Next Day Support) + any sales taxes (if any). > > MICE would own the switch. None of the current switches are owned by MICE and their use is at the whim of their respective owners. This would prevent any of the members from taking their ball and going home. > > We already have a pledge of $3000 for the upgrade from an existing MICE member. > > Thanks, > > Jay > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 20, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Jay Hanke

> > Notice: maximum of 2 EX4500s per VC stack if I remember correctly. > Up to 10 VC Members max, the links are individual 64 Gb/s PCI links 2 per switch or Nx10G from uplink modules on the front of the switch. LAG can span switches. Jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 20, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Mike Horwath

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 04:52:15PM -0500, Jay Hanke wrote: > The new switch would give us 40 1G/10G ports and the ability to add > additional shelves in the future with 128 Gb/s VC uplinks. If there > was sufficient interest and support I believe we could deploy a set > out of the gate to provide redundancy. The plan would be to move > anyone with a FastEthernet connection to one of the remote switches. Notice: maximum of 2 EX4500s per VC stack if I remember correctly. Also, you could have 2 EX4200s + 2 EX 4500s in a single stack as well. Or 8 EX4200s but I don't think we need that many 1Gbps ports. > We already have a pledge of $3000 for the upgrade from an existing > MICE member. THANK YOU MEMBER! -- Mike Horwath ipHouse - Welcome home! drechsau(a)iphouse.net The universe is an island, surrounded by whatever it is that surrounds universes. - Berkeley Fortune ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 20, 2012

Juniper Upgrade

by Jay Hanke

As you may be aware, a waiting list is starting to form for 10G ports on the main switch. The Juniper switches in the core are on long term demo and will need to be returned to the pool at some point. In addition, there are members that are looking for 10G LAG connections to the main switch. I talked to Juniper and they will allow us to swap our existing stack of EX4200's for a steeply discounted EX4500. http://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/switching/ex-series/ex4500/ The new switch would give us 40 1G/10G ports and the ability to add additional shelves in the future with 128 Gb/s VC uplinks. If there was sufficient interest and support I believe we could deploy a set out of the gate to provide redundancy. The plan would be to move anyone with a FastEthernet connection to one of the remote switches. After the trade in, the cost to MICE would be $4485 + $1158 (Next Day Support) + any sales taxes (if any). MICE would own the switch. None of the current switches are owned by MICE and their use is at the whim of their respective owners. This would prevent any of the members from taking their ball and going home. We already have a pledge of $3000 for the upgrade from an existing MICE member. Thanks, Jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 20, 2012