- mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: One-time port fees

by Steve Howard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Dale W. Carder

Thus spake Richard Laager (rlaager(a)WIKTEL.COM) on Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 02:56:56PM -0500: > Dale, you raise an interesting point. If your organization cannot be a legal > member... We should double-check that the bylaws don't automatically make > you a member and count you towards quorum. WI State Statute 36.585(3) for those of you playing lawyer at home ;-) Dale

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Richard Laager

Dale, you raise an interesting point. If your organization cannot be a legal member... We should double-check that the bylaws don't automatically make you a member and count you towards quorum. -- Richard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Richard Laager

On 06/16/2016 02:27 PM, Steve Howard wrote: > End users of remote switches pay as above. Can you elaborate on why you want it this way? As opposed to: the remote switch operator pays for the MICE ports, and it's their business how to recover that. -- Richard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Dale W. Carder

Thus spake Andrew Hoyos (hoyosa(a)GMAIL.COM) on Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 02:35:54PM -0500: > +1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this broken out at some point, floating around. yep, this. My other comment is that our org can typically pay invoices, but not make donations nor become legal "members". Hopefully the sustainability model could account for this. Dale (w/ AS3128 hat on) > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: > > > > > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. > > > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> wrote: > > > >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: > >> > >> 1Gbps $200/month > >> 10Gbps $1000/year > >> > >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. > >> > >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. > >> > >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > >>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. > >>> > >>> Reid > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: > >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. > >>> > >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. > >>> > >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: > >>> > >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join > >>> > >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jay Hanke > >>> CTO > >>> Neutral Path Communications > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > >>> www.neutralpath.net > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Reid Fishler > >>> Director > >>> Hurricane Electric > >>> +1-510-580-4178 > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jay Hanke > >>> CTO > >>> Neutral Path Communications > >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > >>> Mankato, MN 56001 > >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile > >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > >>> www.neutralpath.net > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >>> > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >> > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > >

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Andrew Hoyos

I found this from 2012 in the archives. Could the board take a crack at this with updated data, and send along for input to members? I think this will paint a good picture of what the actual costs are. > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Andrew Hoyos <hoyosa(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > +1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this broken out at some point, floating around. > > > -- > Andrew Hoyos > hoyosa(a)gmail.com > > > >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: >> >> >> Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. >> >> Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. >> >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> wrote: >> >>> Here is a starting point for a discussion: >>> >>> 1Gbps $200/month >>> 10Gbps $1000/year >>> >>> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. >>> >>> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. >>> >>> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: >>>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: >>>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. >>>> >>>> Reid >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: >>>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. >>>> >>>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. >>>> >>>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>>> >>>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>>> >>>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jay Hanke >>>> CTO >>>> Neutral Path Communications >>>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>>> www.neutralpath.net >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Reid Fishler >>>> Director >>>> Hurricane Electric >>>> +1-510-580-4178 >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jay Hanke >>>> CTO >>>> Neutral Path Communications >>>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>>> www.neutralpath.net >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> >

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Andrew Hoyos

+1 on this. Discussing port fees is irrelevant until it’s understood what needs to go back out opex wise (perhaps including some 5-7 year equipment refresh, etc). I seem to recall a spreadsheet that had this broken out at some point, floating around. -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com > On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Hannigan, Martin <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: > > > Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. > > Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET> wrote: > >> Here is a starting point for a discussion: >> >> 1Gbps $200/month >> 10Gbps $1000/year >> >> Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. >> >> All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. >> >> End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: >>> I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: >>> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. >>> >>> Reid >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> wrote: >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. >>> >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. >>> >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>> >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>> >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>> >>> -- >>> Jay Hanke >>> CTO >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> www.neutralpath.net >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Reid Fishler >>> Director >>> Hurricane Electric >>> +1-510-580-4178 >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jay Hanke >>> CTO >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> (507) 327-2398 mobile >>> jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> www.neutralpath.net >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Steve Howard

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Hannigan, Martin

Why don't you start with a budget and then fund it? Maybe thats $50 per user. Maybe not. Did we ever kick out an operating budget? I'd guess yes. Port expense is not the killer here. Its cash flow and opex. On Jun 16, 2016, at 15:28, Steve Howard <showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET<mailto:showard@paulbunyan.net>> wrote: Here is a starting point for a discussion: 1Gbps $200/month 10Gbps $1000/year Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever is active on January 1 gets a bill. All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net<mailto:rfishler@he.net>> wrote: SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees would suddenly make us golden. Reid On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net<mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net>> wrote: There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this week. There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: https://www.seattleix.net/join<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.seattleix.net_join…> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398<tel:%28507%29%20327-2398> mobile <mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net<mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…>www.neutralpath.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178<tel:%2B1-510-580-4178> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile <mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net<mailto:jayhanke@neutralpath.net> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…>www.neutralpath.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.neutralpath.net&d=D…> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…>

June 16, 2016

Re: One-time port fees

by Reid Fishler

Hopefully there is news about the NFP status at the board/usergroup meeting, that I hope you all will be at next week! Reid On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Steve Howard <showard(a)paulbunyan.net> wrote: > Here is a starting point for a discussion: > > 1Gbps $200/month > 10Gbps $1000/year > > Everybody invoiced ANNUALLY. First year/partial year free. i.e. Whoever > is active on January 1 gets a bill. > > All amounts are suggested donations (for now). i.e. You won't be > disconnected if you don't pay (yet). However that could change at any > time. Especially if we run out of ports, in that case the members who have > historically paid for their port(s) take precedence over those who haven't. > > End users of remote switches pay as above. Remote switches do not pay as > long as their end users pay enough to make up for the ports used by the > remote switch. For example, the CNS switch has 3x10Gbps ports connecting > to the main MICE switch. The five CNS end users pay $1,000 each, this > covers the $3,000 cost of the three ports to the CNS switch. If CNS has > only two users paying $1,000 each, then CNS would owe $1,000. > > > > > > > On 06/16/2016 01:53 PM, Jason Hanke wrote: > > I'm quietly awaiting a counter proposal... > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > >> SIX also has a ton of donations coming in. They were a VERY early >> exchange out there. They did what they did VERY well, and we use some of >> their structure in MICE. But lets not think that single one time port fees >> would suddenly make us golden. >> >> Reid >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jason Hanke <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net> >> wrote: >> >>> There was quite a bit of talk regarding port fees at NANOG earlier this >>> week. >>> >>> There was also seemingly universal accolades going to the SiX in Seattle. >>> >>> Here is the schedule of fees at the SiX: >>> >>> https://www.seattleix.net/join >>> >>> This may be a reasonable starting point for MICE. >>> >>> -- >>> Jay Hanke >>> CTO >>> Neutral Path Communications >>> 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 >>> Mankato, MN 56001 >>> (507) 327-2398 <%28507%29%20327-2398> mobile >>> <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net >>> <http://www.neutralpath.net>www.neutralpath.net >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Reid Fishler >> Director >> Hurricane Electric >> +1-510-580-4178 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > > > > -- > Jay Hanke > CTO > Neutral Path Communications > 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 327-2398 mobile > <jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net>jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net > <http://www.neutralpath.net>www.neutralpath.net > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178

June 16, 2016