September 2019 - mice-discuss

Re: Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down?

by Jeff Dahna

We show on graphing that Zayo is down hard to Omaha from Windom at 8:10am. Put a ticket in with Zayo and offered to OTDR from Windom south towards Omaha. Jeff Dahna Windomnet

Sept. 25, 2019

Re: Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down?

by James Urwiller

Yes I am down here as well. James Urwiller Network Architect Stealth Broadband james.urwiller(a)stealthbroadband.com [image: stealth300] *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Frank Bulk *Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2019 08:26 *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down? Jeremy sees my link to him in Belle Plaine being down, so likely something between Belle Plaine and northwest Iowa. Frank *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Frank Bulk *Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2019 8:16 AM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down? Our 10G dropped at 8:10 am. Frank ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Sept. 25, 2019

Re: Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down?

by Frank Bulk

Jeremy sees my link to him in Belle Plaine being down, so likely something between Belle Plaine and northwest Iowa. Frank From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 8:16 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down? Our 10G dropped at 8:10 am. Frank ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…>

Sept. 25, 2019

Re: Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down?

by Eric Gengler

Same here. Eric From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 8:16 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: ADV: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down? Our 10G dropped at 8:10 am. Frank ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Sept. 25, 2019

Re: Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down?

by Mike Horwath

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 08:17:58AM -0500, Dean Bahls wrote: > Based on past performance, I predict an 8:15pm restoration of services. which day? > (Sorry, couldn't resist) me either. I'm just bad.. -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG

Sept. 25, 2019

Re: Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down?

by Tim Fjeld

Our link from Windom to Omaha IX is down at 8:10 Tim Fjeld City of Windom Telecom From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 8:16 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: ADV: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down? Our 10G dropped at 8:10 am. Frank ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Sept. 25, 2019

Re: Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down?

by Dean Bahls

Based on past performance, I predict an 8:15pm restoration of services. (Sorry, couldn't resist) Dean From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 8:16 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down? Our 10G dropped at 8:10 am. Frank _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1

Sept. 25, 2019

Anyone else see their Zayo-based link to MICE go down?

by Frank Bulk

Our 10G dropped at 8:10 am. Frank

Sept. 25, 2019

Re: Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm?

by Jeremy Lumby

Sounds like my experiences with Zayo. I wonder if any smaller network that does not have a dedicated legal team, or does tons of business with Zayo to have significant leverage ever gets anything out of them. From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of James Urwiller Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 10:29 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Frank, I made a list of 2019 outages and showed how I only had a single clean month (July) and they are taking their time with it, at least you got a response 😉 James Urwiller Network Architect Stealth Broadband james.urwiller(a)stealthbroadband.com From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 21:54 To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? My credit request to Zayo for the September 9 event was rejected – they claimed force majeure. I’m ask again. =) Frank From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Darin Steffl Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 9:18 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? That's pretty sad. So they already had a fiber crew on site and it still took many hours to fix it. Maybe they didn't have a splicer there but it's still bad to see how long it took when they knew the exact location of the cut since they caused it. On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 9:15 AM Frank Bulk <fbulk(a)mypremieronline.com> wrote: >From our OSP supervisor: …this was cut by Zayo’s own contractor who was working on moving their fiber. Frank From: Frank Bulk Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 8:17 AM To: 'MICE Discuss' <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: RE: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? >From our field tech: I think the contractor Zayo hired to move the fiber for the Hwy. 75 reconstruction hit the fiber. I'm assuming Vannguard's locates were off. Frank From: Frank Bulk Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 7:28 AM To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: RE: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? My own link was up at 1:41 am Last update I received from Zayo was at 3:46 am: Current Update: OSP techs have completed splicing on all active fibers at this time. All services should be restored. Please advise if you are still experiencing issues. Frank From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 11:43 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Another update at 11:25pm: Current Update: Replacement fiber and splicers are onsite at this time. Techs will be prepping the cables for splicing soon. ETR at this time is 5 hours. More updates to follow. So basically it should be up by 5 am or so. Frank From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 10:18 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Another update at 10:09 pm: Current Update: Our OSP reported that the repair crew are running a little behind the 2 hour ETA provided earlier and have noted the are still about 50 minutes from the damage area. So they will arrive around 11 pm, about 7h 15m from the start of the outage. Frank From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 8:30 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? More detail in Zayo’s last update at 8:08 pm We apologize for the delayed update. We've spoken with our OSP PM and have been advised that the splice crew's ETA to the site is still about 1 to 1.5 hours and the ETTR is 4.5 to 5 hours. The damage was caused by a construction crew and the damage area is south of Hinton, IA around County Rd 60 and Iowa State Rd 75. Additional information to follow once the splice crew is on site. So it does seem related to the Hwy 75 re-construction project. Frank From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Justin Krejci Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 6:13 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? I heard it is out somewhere between Sioux City and Alton, so it definitely could be that IDOT construction zone. We don't have growing pains we have Zayo pains. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> on behalf of Frank Bulk <fbulk(a)MYPREMIERONLINE.COM> Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 4:37 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Could be part of the Hwy 75 project: https://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/idot-to-close-us-highway-during-nig… Our OSP staff said that Zayo was the laggard on the required moves. Frank -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of AnthonyAnderberg(a)nuvera.net Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 4:21 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? We've got a link in NW Iowa down as well, we're on the same (former Neutral Path) link as you guys to Sioux City - so it's someplace between Sioux City, IA and Windom, MN. On 9/9/19, 4:02 PM, "MICE Discuss on behalf of James Urwiller" <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET on behalf of james.urwiller(a)TURNKEY-TELECOM.COM> wrote: YES SIR! James Urwiller Network Architect Stealth Broadband james.urwiller(a)stealthbroadband.com -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 16:02 To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Bounce and then down. Sep 9 15:45:21 Fibercomm, 10G Ethernet Term. ETH-1-1-4, Critical (Raised), Link (Failure), Link failure, 2019-09-09 08:45:19 PM (GMT), to Belle Plaine via WIT for MICE Sep 9 15:45:37 Fibercomm, 10G Ethernet Term. ETH-1-1-4, Critical (Cleared), Link (Failure), Link failure, 2019-09-09 08:45:27 PM (GMT), to Belle Plaine via WIT for MICE Sep 9 15:45:52 Fibercomm, 10G Ethernet Term. ETH-1-1-4, Critical (Raised), Link (Failure), Link failure, 2019-09-09 08:45:49 PM (GMT), to Belle Plaine via WIT for MICE Frank To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Sept. 24, 2019

Re: Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm?

by James Urwiller

Frank, I made a list of 2019 outages and showed how I only had a single clean month (July) and they are taking their time with it, at least you got a response 😉 James Urwiller Network Architect Stealth Broadband james.urwiller(a)stealthbroadband.com [image: stealth300] *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Frank Bulk *Sent:* Monday, September 23, 2019 21:54 *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? My credit request to Zayo for the September 9 event was rejected – they claimed force majeure. I’m ask again. =) Frank *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl *Sent:* Tuesday, September 10, 2019 9:18 AM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? That's pretty sad. So they already had a fiber crew on site and it still took many hours to fix it. Maybe they didn't have a splicer there but it's still bad to see how long it took when they knew the exact location of the cut since they caused it. On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 9:15 AM Frank Bulk <fbulk(a)mypremieronline.com> wrote: >From our OSP supervisor: *…this was cut by Zayo’s own contractor who was working on moving their fiber.* Frank *From:* Frank Bulk *Sent:* Tuesday, September 10, 2019 8:17 AM *To:* 'MICE Discuss' <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Subject:* RE: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? >From our field tech: *I think the contractor Zayo hired to move the fiber for the Hwy. 75 reconstruction hit the fiber. I'm assuming Vannguard's locates were off.* Frank *From:* Frank Bulk *Sent:* Tuesday, September 10, 2019 7:28 AM *To:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Subject:* RE: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? My own link was up at 1:41 am Last update I received from Zayo was at 3:46 am: *Current Update: OSP techs have completed splicing on all active fibers at this time. All services should be restored. Please advise if you are still experiencing issues.* Frank *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Frank Bulk *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 11:43 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Another update at 11:25pm: *Current Update: Replacement fiber and splicers are onsite at this time. Techs will be prepping the cables for splicing soon. ETR at this time is 5 hours. More updates to follow.* So basically it should be up by 5 am or so. Frank *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Frank Bulk *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 10:18 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Another update at 10:09 pm: *Current Update: Our OSP reported that the repair crew are running a little behind the 2 hour ETA provided earlier and have noted the are still about 50 minutes from the damage area.* So they will arrive around 11 pm, about 7h 15m from the start of the outage. Frank *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Frank Bulk *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 8:30 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? More detail in Zayo’s last update at 8:08 pm *We apologize for the delayed update. We've spoken with our OSP PM and have been advised that the splice crew's ETA to the site is still about 1 to 1.5 hours and the ETTR is 4.5 to 5 hours. The damage was caused by a construction crew and the damage area is south of Hinton, IA around County Rd 60 and Iowa State Rd 75. Additional information to follow once the splice crew is on site.* So it does seem related to the Hwy 75 re-construction project. Frank *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Justin Krejci *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 6:13 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? I heard it is out somewhere between Sioux City and Alton, so it definitely could be that IDOT construction zone. We don't have growing pains we have Zayo pains. ------------------------------ *From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> on behalf of Frank Bulk <fbulk(a)MYPREMIERONLINE.COM> *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 4:37 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Could be part of the Hwy 75 project: https://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/idot-to-close-us-highway-during-nig… <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__siouxcityjournal.com_n…> Our OSP staff said that Zayo was the laggard on the required moves. Frank -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of AnthonyAnderberg(a)nuvera.net Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 4:21 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? We've got a link in NW Iowa down as well, we're on the same (former Neutral Path) link as you guys to Sioux City - so it's someplace between Sioux City, IA and Windom, MN. On 9/9/19, 4:02 PM, "MICE Discuss on behalf of James Urwiller" <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET on behalf of james.urwiller(a)TURNKEY-TELECOM.COM> wrote: YES SIR! James Urwiller Network Architect Stealth Broadband james.urwiller(a)stealthbroadband.com -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 16:02 To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Anyone else down to Belle Plain since 3:45 pm? Bounce and then down. Sep 9 15:45:21 Fibercomm, 10G Ethernet Term. ETH-1-1-4, Critical (Raised), Link (Failure), Link failure, 2019-09-09 08:45:19 PM (GMT), to Belle Plaine via WIT for MICE Sep 9 15:45:37 Fibercomm, 10G Ethernet Term. ETH-1-1-4, Critical (Cleared), Link (Failure), Link failure, 2019-09-09 08:45:27 PM (GMT), to Belle Plaine via WIT for MICE Sep 9 15:45:52 Fibercomm, 10G Ethernet Term. ETH-1-1-4, Critical (Raised), Link (Failure), Link failure, 2019-09-09 08:45:49 PM (GMT), to Belle Plaine via WIT for MICE Frank ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.iphouse.net_cgi-2…> ------------------------------ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Sept. 24, 2019