October 2016 - mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: MICE core switch maintenance window - 10/27/2016 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT

by Colin Baker

On 25.10.2016 09:40, Andrew Hoyos wrote: > > Lack of a surplus of cash or charging fees seems to have little if > nothing to do with having some operational norms and > processes/timelines that we could all agree to follow. > > I’m not discounting Doug’s willingness to do the upgrade at all, it’s > the process by which it’s happened, and I think we can do better as a > group to bring some sane operational due process and some standards we > can all agree to follow as a community when it comes to things like > this (upgrades, changes, etc) to minimize impact to the IX and it’s > members. > > If folks feel differently as a group, I’ll bite my tongue and turn the > other way — but we’re big enough now where folks are paying attention > to this sort of thing. > > My suggestion would be for the formal creation of a technical > committee by the board, which can work on and implement these > operational details in a way that works for everyone. > I remember some discussion in a MICE UG meeting a few years back that some larger networks may have strict requirements that must be met in order to connect to the exchange. We've added some big content providers recently, which I'm thrilled to see, but I think establishing some defined and documented standards can only help continue the growth. -- Colin Baker SupraNet Communications, Inc. (608) 572-7634 colinb(a)supranet.net This message is subject to the SupraNet Email Confidentiality Policy which is located at http://supranet.net/confidentiality

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: MICE core switch maintenance window - 10/27/2016 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT

by Andrew Hoyos

> On Oct 25, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: > > If MICE had been built on a surplus of cash, and not donated time/hardware, then I would feel much different. Lack of a surplus of cash or charging fees seems to have little if nothing to do with having some operational norms and processes/timelines that we could all agree to follow. I’m not discounting Doug’s willingness to do the upgrade at all, it’s the process by which it’s happened, and I think we can do better as a group to bring some sane operational due process and some standards we can all agree to follow as a community when it comes to things like this (upgrades, changes, etc) to minimize impact to the IX and it’s members. If folks feel differently as a group, I’ll bite my tongue and turn the other way — but we’re big enough now where folks are paying attention to this sort of thing. My suggestion would be for the formal creation of a technical committee by the board, which can work on and implement these operational details in a way that works for everyone. -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com

Oct. 25, 2016

Donation Thank You

by Jason Hanke

Please thank Hoyos Consulting for a $2100 Paypal donation this morning! -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

Oct. 25, 2016

Please welcome Fastly to MICE!

by Jason Hanke

Name: Fastly, Inc ASN: 54113 IPv4: 206.108.255.72/24 IPv4: 206.108.255.73/24 IPv6: 2001:504:27:0:0:d361::1/64 IPv6: 2001:504:27:0:0:d361::2/64 Ports: Main Switch xe-2/0/25, xe-2/0/26 (NO LAG) Contact: peering(a)fastly.com Route Server and website please, I'm checking on BFD support. Welcome aboard! -- Jay Hanke CTO Neutral Path Communications 3 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 204 Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 327-2398 mobile jayhanke(a)neutralpath.net www.neutralpath.net

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: MICE core switch maintenance window - 10/27/2016 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT

by Mike Horwath

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 07:34:00AM -0500, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > If MICE had been built on a surplus of cash, and not donated > time/hardware, then I would feel much different. Hear hear! -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: MICE core switch maintenance window - 10/27/2016 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT

by Jeremy Lumby

As one of the other 60+ members, I am offering my $0.02. Honestly I think Doug has gone above, and beyond with his notification window, as well as willingness to do it during a low traffic period. If I was the one doing the work, it would be in the middle of the day, and would be thrown together at the last minute when I happened to know I was going past Cologix for some other reason. Since there have never been port fees, and even when they do come about, there is a lot of opposition to making them mandatory, or recurring, I think the membership needs to judge the exchange on the value it has been, and will be providing, and not some formalized service level agreement that in the industry is typically just a document that says if we screw up here is how much we will refund. I feel it is far more important to allow Doug to do it on his time since people like him have made the donations that are the only reason that MICE has made it as far and done as well as it has. If MICE had been built on a surplus of cash, and not donated time/hardware, then I would feel much different. Jeremy Lumby Minnesota VoIP 9217 17th Ave S Suite 216 Bloomington, MN 55425 Main: 612-355-7740 x211 Direct: 612-392-6814 EFax: 952-873-7425 jlumby(a)mnvoip.com -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Andrew Hoyos Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:00 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE core switch maintenance window - 10/27/2016 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT On Oct 24, 2016, at 11:29 PM, Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 08:22:46PM -0500, Andrew Hoyos wrote: >> Also, given how big MICE has become and some of the players involved, I’d think we can do better than 3 days advance notice on service affecting work that will take down the the majority of the IX? > > OOTH, if you get out past 7 days you have the problem that people > forget about the window, and are blindsided by it actually happening. > I get more complaints about further out windows than shorter. Hrm, 7-10 days seems to be industry standard for this sort of thing, and in practice, I personally have never had anyone complain about providing *more* advance notice for service affecting work. Calendars and all….. > I would typically aim for 6 days, but didn't want to do it during MEA, > and now Holloween is coming up as well. Given 2.5 solid days (not > weekend), went with a window that fit around my and other's schedule. Understood, and truly appreciate you volunteering to do the work, however, what about the input of the other 60+ members of MICE into this? Unless I've completely missed something, this all seems very unstructured and ad-hoc. Board folks and community - I’d encourage some more discussion here on governance of the technical side of the IX, including how and when changes are scheduled/approved, and perhaps some formalization of a technical committee. I think we’ve reached a point where continuing to do things ad-hoc paints a shaky picture. -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: MICE Port Runout

by Shaun Carlson

Andrew, that is my understanding as well from previous research. Basically, once you file, assume the status is approved. The status will be retroactive to the date of filing. It's the IRS' was of saying, we know we'll take a while, so don't wait up on our account. s Shaun Carlson Director of Information Technology | Arvig ph: (218) 346.8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:28 PM -0500, "Andrew Hoyos" <hoyosa(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 24, 2016, at 10:19 PM, Richard Laager wrote: > > On 10/24/2016 09:56 PM, Larry Patterson wrote: >> So assuming paperwork happens in a timely fashion, donations after the >> filing date would be tax deductible for 2016? Is that the agreed upon >> direction? If so, I would suggest we get some end of year charitable >> giving going on. I would be interested in participating. What do the >> lawyers say about 2016 vs. 2017 status? > > Assuming the IRS accepts our application, I'm not sure how retroactive > it will be. IANAL, but: https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-law-compliance-before-exempt-… and https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/contribu… Seems to imply that 2016 contributions would be safe (as long as the MICE legal entity was planning on filing a 990 for 2016 for income/donations received). -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: MICE core switch maintenance window - 10/27/2016 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT

by Andrew Hoyos

On Oct 24, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> wrote: > > We're going to upgrade the core MICE 10G switches coming up this week > on Wednesday night/ Thursday morning at 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT on 27 October. This should probably be sent to MICE-ANNOUNCE as well. -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: MICE core switch maintenance window - 10/27/2016 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT

by Andrew Hoyos

On Oct 24, 2016, at 11:29 PM, Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 08:22:46PM -0500, Andrew Hoyos wrote: >> Also, given how big MICE has become and some of the players involved, I’d think we can do better than 3 days advance notice on service affecting work that will take down the the majority of the IX? > > OOTH, if you get out past 7 days you have the problem that people > forget about the window, and are blindsided by it actually happening. > I get more complaints about further out windows than shorter. Hrm, 7-10 days seems to be industry standard for this sort of thing, and in practice, I personally have never had anyone complain about providing *more* advance notice for service affecting work. Calendars and all….. > I would typically aim for 6 days, but didn't want to do it during MEA, > and now Holloween is coming up as well. Given 2.5 solid days (not > weekend), went with a window that fit around my and other's schedule. Understood, and truly appreciate you volunteering to do the work, however, what about the input of the other 60+ members of MICE into this? Unless I've completely missed something, this all seems very unstructured and ad-hoc. Board folks and community - I’d encourage some more discussion here on governance of the technical side of the IX, including how and when changes are scheduled/approved, and perhaps some formalization of a technical committee. I think we’ve reached a point where continuing to do things ad-hoc paints a shaky picture. -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: MICE core switch maintenance window - 10/27/2016 12:30AM-1:00AM CDT

by Doug McIntyre

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 08:14:17PM -0500, Richard Laager wrote: > On 10/24/2016 01:20 PM, Doug McIntyre wrote: > > We're going to upgrade the core MICE 10G switches > > Has it been MICE practice to block BGP using a L4 ACL before the > maintenance? There hasn't been that many maintenance periods, like 3 events, one was unintended AFAIK. But we could, it wouldn't be too difficult. > Something like this: > https://www.nanog.org/sites/default/files/wednesday.general-lt.hargrave.ixp… I can implement this 5 minutes before the upgrade. -- Doug McIntyre <merlyn(a)iphouse.net> ~.~ ipHouse ~.~ Network Engineer/Provisioning/Jack of all Trades

Oct. 25, 2016