October 2014 - mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: Netflix Ramping Up

by Brady Kittel

Looks like aggregate bandwidth has over doubled (at ~65Gbps currently and is still climbing. On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Derek Poehls <dpoehls(a)702communications.com > wrote: > I shutdown my connections to the Route Servers, as I was going to crash > into my 1G port speed shortly thereafter… Just a heads up if you notice a > sudden drop on the graphs. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=- > Derek Poehls > 702 Communications > NOC Supervisor/Senior Network Engineer > (218) 284-5775 > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: Netflix Ramping Up

by Derek Poehls

I shutdown my connections to the Route Servers, as I was going to crash into my 1G port speed shortly thereafter… Just a heads up if you notice a sudden drop on the graphs. -=-=-=-=-=-=- Derek Poehls 702 Communications NOC Supervisor/Senior Network Engineer (218) 284-5775

Oct. 21, 2014

Re: Netflix Ramping Up

by Justin Krejci

I got word that Gigapop is working to get their connection moved over to the main switch now. Hopefully that goes smoothly for all involved. ________________________________________ From: MICE Discuss [MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] on behalf of Steve Howard [showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 3:03 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Netflix Ramping Up On 10/21/2014 02:51 PM, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > I see Netflix is ramping up, and the link to the CNS switch is getting close to saturating. The University may need to move to the main switch soon to alleviate the link. Wow! What a different Netflix makes! I wonder how full it will be in the evening tonight? It wouldn't surprise me if the link is completely saturated. I agree the University/Gigapop should move and/or we should add another 10Gig link between the CNS and main switches. It wouldn't surprise me if the University needs to add a second 10Gig connection!

Oct. 21, 2014

Re: Netflix Ramping Up

by Beatrice, Tim L

That is funny! Anywho, I will ask them to add MICE to peeringdb. Tim Beatrice Charter Communications -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Justin Krejci Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 3:43 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Netflix Ramping Up Also there are those several members who do not use MLPA route servers: Charter, Enventis, etc. that did not appear to have a corresponding bump in their own utilization this afternoon that presumably have a lot of eyeballs on their networks that would benefit from peering with Netflix. I don't know if any/many of them closely monitor these mailing lists and so may not even realize Netflix is connected and live on MICE now but it may be worth reaching out to those folks. ________________________________________ From: MICE Discuss [MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] on behalf of Justin Krejci [JKrejci(a)USINTERNET.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 3:30 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Netflix Ramping Up Does anyone have a good Netflix contact to nudge them into adding MICE into their peeringdb.com list? If not I expect an email to their peering@ address would eventually reach the right eyes. ________________________________________ From: MICE Discuss [MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] on behalf of Steve Howard [showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 3:03 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Netflix Ramping Up On 10/21/2014 02:51 PM, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > I see Netflix is ramping up, and the link to the CNS switch is getting close to saturating. The University may need to move to the main switch soon to alleviate the link. Wow! What a different Netflix makes! I wonder how full it will be in the evening tonight? It wouldn't surprise me if the link is completely saturated. I agree the University/Gigapop should move and/or we should add another 10Gig link between the CNS and main switches. It wouldn't surprise me if the University needs to add a second 10Gig connection!

Oct. 21, 2014

Re: Netflix Ramping Up

by Justin Krejci

Also there are those several members who do not use MLPA route servers: Charter, Enventis, etc. that did not appear to have a corresponding bump in their own utilization this afternoon that presumably have a lot of eyeballs on their networks that would benefit from peering with Netflix. I don't know if any/many of them closely monitor these mailing lists and so may not even realize Netflix is connected and live on MICE now but it may be worth reaching out to those folks. ________________________________________ From: MICE Discuss [MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] on behalf of Justin Krejci [JKrejci(a)USINTERNET.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 3:30 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Netflix Ramping Up Does anyone have a good Netflix contact to nudge them into adding MICE into their peeringdb.com list? If not I expect an email to their peering@ address would eventually reach the right eyes. ________________________________________ From: MICE Discuss [MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] on behalf of Steve Howard [showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 3:03 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Netflix Ramping Up On 10/21/2014 02:51 PM, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > I see Netflix is ramping up, and the link to the CNS switch is getting close to saturating. The University may need to move to the main switch soon to alleviate the link. Wow! What a different Netflix makes! I wonder how full it will be in the evening tonight? It wouldn't surprise me if the link is completely saturated. I agree the University/Gigapop should move and/or we should add another 10Gig link between the CNS and main switches. It wouldn't surprise me if the University needs to add a second 10Gig connection!

Oct. 21, 2014

Re: Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014

by Shaun Carlson

Either is fine *Shaun Carlson*Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 3:29 PM, dangieser <dangieser(a)mankatonetworks.net> wrote: > Shaun- > > Do you want a standard monitor cable or HDMI for the projector? > > Dan Gieser > Mankato Networks > > Cell: 507-327-5341 > Desk: 507-242-6469 > dangieser(a)mankatonetworks.net > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Shaun Carlson" <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)lists.iphouse.net > Sent: 10/21/2014 3:12:16 PM > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014 > > > One last reach out... looking for a meeting sponsor and a projector to use > for the video call. Anyone? > > Thanks in advance! > > s > > > > *Shaun Carlson*Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig > ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Shaun Carlson <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> > wrote: > >> Thanks for the reminder, I even forgot my own response. ;) >> >> Added. >> >> s >> >> >> >> *Shaun Carlson*Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >> ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: >> >>> Lets add the discussion of Community Strings to the agenda >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] *On Behalf >>> Of *Shaun Carlson >>> *Sent:* Monday, October 20, 2014 4:11 PM >>> *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET >>> *Subject:* [MICE-DISCUSS] Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014 >>> >>> >>> >>> All, >>> >>> >>> >>> Please see the attached agenda, if you have any additions, please let me >>> know. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please see the attached minutes from our previous meeting. If you have >>> any additions or corrections, please let me know. >>> >>> >>> >>> One agenda note, we'll be discussing the potential change of MICE to a >>> 501.(c)6 non-profit organization. I've attached some discussion points and >>> would encourage you to *send your questions and comments to the list.* >>> Jeff Clancy from Stinson Leonard Street LLP will be present at the meeting >>> to answer questions and facilitate our next steps should we choose to move >>> forward with the conversion. >>> >>> >>> >>> Last, we are still in need of a sponsor for refreshments at Wednesday's >>> meeting, any volunteers? >>> >>> >>> >>> *Remote Dial-in Info:* >>> >>> www.webex.com >>> >>> Meeting Number: 193 507 116 >>> >>> Meeting Password: MICEUG14 >>> >>> * Please try to have a web-cam hooked up to facilitate the best possible >>> interaction. >>> >>> ** I will start this web conference 15 minutes prior to the meeting to >>> allow you to dial-in and work past any technical difficulties. >>> >>> >>> >>> One request, does anyone have a projector they could bring to the >>> meeting for this web conference? I would need it approx. 30 minutes prior >>> to the meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> >>> >>> s >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Shaun Carlson*Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >>> >>> ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

Oct. 21, 2014

Re: Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014

by Shaun Carlson

Thanks Dan! I'll have everything else ready to go! s *Shaun Carlson*Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 3:22 PM, dangieser <dangieser(a)mankatonetworks.net> wrote: > We've got a projector you can use > > Dan Gieser > Mankato Networks > > Cell: 507-327-5341 > Desk: 507-242-6469 > dangieser(a)mankatonetworks.net > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Shaun Carlson" <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> > To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)lists.iphouse.net > Sent: 10/21/2014 3:12:16 PM > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014 > > > One last reach out... looking for a meeting sponsor and a projector to use > for the video call. Anyone? > > Thanks in advance! > > s > > > > *Shaun Carlson*Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig > ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Shaun Carlson <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> > wrote: > >> Thanks for the reminder, I even forgot my own response. ;) >> >> Added. >> >> s >> >> >> >> *Shaun Carlson*Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >> ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> wrote: >> >>> Lets add the discussion of Community Strings to the agenda >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] *On Behalf >>> Of *Shaun Carlson >>> *Sent:* Monday, October 20, 2014 4:11 PM >>> *To:* MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET >>> *Subject:* [MICE-DISCUSS] Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014 >>> >>> >>> >>> All, >>> >>> >>> >>> Please see the attached agenda, if you have any additions, please let me >>> know. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please see the attached minutes from our previous meeting. If you have >>> any additions or corrections, please let me know. >>> >>> >>> >>> One agenda note, we'll be discussing the potential change of MICE to a >>> 501.(c)6 non-profit organization. I've attached some discussion points and >>> would encourage you to *send your questions and comments to the list.* >>> Jeff Clancy from Stinson Leonard Street LLP will be present at the meeting >>> to answer questions and facilitate our next steps should we choose to move >>> forward with the conversion. >>> >>> >>> >>> Last, we are still in need of a sponsor for refreshments at Wednesday's >>> meeting, any volunteers? >>> >>> >>> >>> *Remote Dial-in Info:* >>> >>> www.webex.com >>> >>> Meeting Number: 193 507 116 >>> >>> Meeting Password: MICEUG14 >>> >>> * Please try to have a web-cam hooked up to facilitate the best possible >>> interaction. >>> >>> ** I will start this web conference 15 minutes prior to the meeting to >>> allow you to dial-in and work past any technical difficulties. >>> >>> >>> >>> One request, does anyone have a projector they could bring to the >>> meeting for this web conference? I would need it approx. 30 minutes prior >>> to the meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> >>> >>> s >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Shaun Carlson*Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >>> >>> ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

Oct. 21, 2014

Re: Netflix Ramping Up

by Justin Krejci

Does anyone have a good Netflix contact to nudge them into adding MICE into their peeringdb.com list? If not I expect an email to their peering@ address would eventually reach the right eyes. ________________________________________ From: MICE Discuss [MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] on behalf of Steve Howard [showard(a)PAULBUNYAN.NET] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 3:03 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Netflix Ramping Up On 10/21/2014 02:51 PM, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > I see Netflix is ramping up, and the link to the CNS switch is getting close to saturating. The University may need to move to the main switch soon to alleviate the link. Wow! What a different Netflix makes! I wonder how full it will be in the evening tonight? It wouldn't surprise me if the link is completely saturated. I agree the University/Gigapop should move and/or we should add another 10Gig link between the CNS and main switches. It wouldn't surprise me if the University needs to add a second 10Gig connection!

Oct. 21, 2014

Re: Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014

by dangieser

Shaun- Do you want a standard monitor cable or HDMI for the projector? Dan Gieser Mankato Networks Cell: 507-327-5341 Desk: 507-242-6469 dangieser(a)mankatonetworks.net ------ Original Message ------ From: "Shaun Carlson" <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)lists.iphouse.net Sent: 10/21/2014 3:12:16 PM Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014 >One last reach out... looking for a meeting sponsor and a projector to >use for the video call. Anyone? > >Thanks in advance! > >s > > >Shaun Carlson >Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com > >On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Shaun Carlson ><shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> wrote: >>Thanks for the reminder, I even forgot my own response. ;) >> >>Added. >> >>s >> >> >>Shaun Carlson >>Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >>ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >> >>On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> >>wrote: >>>Lets add the discussion of Community Strings to the agenda >>> >>> >>> >>>From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf >>>Of Shaun Carlson >>>Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 4:11 PM >>>To:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET >>>Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014 >>> >>> >>> >>>All, >>> >>> >>> >>>Please see the attached agenda, if you have any additions, please let >>>me know. >>> >>> >>> >>>Please see the attached minutes from our previous meeting. If you >>>have any additions or corrections, please let me know. >>> >>> >>> >>>One agenda note, we'll be discussing the potential change of MICE to >>>a 501.(c)6 non-profit organization. I've attached some discussion >>>points and would encourage you to send your questions and comments to >>>the list. Jeff Clancy from Stinson Leonard Street LLP will be >>>present at the meeting to answer questions and facilitate our next >>>steps should we choose to move forward with the conversion. >>> >>> >>> >>>Last, we are still in need of a sponsor for refreshments at >>>Wednesday's meeting, any volunteers? >>> >>> >>> >>>Remote Dial-in Info: >>> >>>www.webex.com >>> >>>Meeting Number: 193 507 116 >>> >>>Meeting Password: MICEUG14 >>> >>>* Please try to have a web-cam hooked up to facilitate the best >>>possible interaction. >>> >>>** I will start this web conference 15 minutes prior to the meeting >>>to allow you to dial-in and work past any technical difficulties. >>> >>> >>> >>>One request, does anyone have a projector they could bring to the >>>meeting for this web conference? I would need it approx. 30 minutes >>>prior to the meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>> >>> >>>s >>> >>> >>> >>>Shaun Carlson >>>Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >>> >>>ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >>> >>> >>> >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >>> >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

Oct. 21, 2014

Re: Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014

by dangieser

We've got a projector you can use Dan Gieser Mankato Networks Cell: 507-327-5341 Desk: 507-242-6469 dangieser(a)mankatonetworks.net ------ Original Message ------ From: "Shaun Carlson" <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)lists.iphouse.net Sent: 10/21/2014 3:12:16 PM Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014 >One last reach out... looking for a meeting sponsor and a projector to >use for the video call. Anyone? > >Thanks in advance! > >s > > >Shaun Carlson >Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com > >On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Shaun Carlson ><shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com> wrote: >>Thanks for the reminder, I even forgot my own response. ;) >> >>Added. >> >>s >> >> >>Shaun Carlson >>Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >>ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >> >>On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Jeremy Lumby <jlumby(a)mnvoip.com> >>wrote: >>>Lets add the discussion of Community Strings to the agenda >>> >>> >>> >>>From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf >>>Of Shaun Carlson >>>Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 4:11 PM >>>To:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET >>>Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Agenda - MICE UG 14 - 22 Oct 2014 >>> >>> >>> >>>All, >>> >>> >>> >>>Please see the attached agenda, if you have any additions, please let >>>me know. >>> >>> >>> >>>Please see the attached minutes from our previous meeting. If you >>>have any additions or corrections, please let me know. >>> >>> >>> >>>One agenda note, we'll be discussing the potential change of MICE to >>>a 501.(c)6 non-profit organization. I've attached some discussion >>>points and would encourage you to send your questions and comments to >>>the list. Jeff Clancy from Stinson Leonard Street LLP will be >>>present at the meeting to answer questions and facilitate our next >>>steps should we choose to move forward with the conversion. >>> >>> >>> >>>Last, we are still in need of a sponsor for refreshments at >>>Wednesday's meeting, any volunteers? >>> >>> >>> >>>Remote Dial-in Info: >>> >>>www.webex.com >>> >>>Meeting Number: 193 507 116 >>> >>>Meeting Password: MICEUG14 >>> >>>* Please try to have a web-cam hooked up to facilitate the best >>>possible interaction. >>> >>>** I will start this web conference 15 minutes prior to the meeting >>>to allow you to dial-in and work past any technical difficulties. >>> >>> >>> >>>One request, does anyone have a projector they could bring to the >>>meeting for this web conference? I would need it approx. 30 minutes >>>prior to the meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>> >>> >>>s >>> >>> >>> >>>Shaun Carlson >>>Senior Manager of Information Technology | Arvig >>> >>>ph: (218) 346-8673 | em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com >>> >>> >>> >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >>> >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >>>http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >>> >> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >

Oct. 21, 2014