July 2012 - mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Reid Fishler

We have to assume there will always be donations, however we also have to assume that participants DO see value BESIDES just lowering costs...such as much lower latency. Reid On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Shaun Carlson <shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com>wrote: > That's an excellant point Andrew and a great example. > > It certainly makes the case for considering continuing the current model. > Again, it comes down to evaluating costs. Jay's model seems to indicate > that the non-recurring fees are the largest part of this model. It's also > fair to assume this gear will be in service for more than one year. > > s > > *Shaun Carlson > *Senior Network Engineer | Arvig > ph: (218) 346-8673 | contact: protocol.by/scarlson > em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com > > > > On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Andrew Hoyos <hoyosa(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jul 23, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: >> > Obviously others here are members of more than just MICE, would some >> care >> > to share the structure of other IX's? maybe that helps us guide our >> model? >> >> So I might be in the minority here, but I don't see the need to charge >> recurring fees, especially with the level of community >> involvement/donations we have seen with MICE. >> >> This model has worked just fine for SIX ( >> http://www.seattleix.net/intro.htm) and they are operating on a MUCH >> larger scale. >> >> SFP = cost of GigE port >> SFP + $5k = cost of 10GigE port >> >> And no shortage of contributors: http://www.seattleix.net/contrib.htm >> >> -- >> Andrew Hoyos >> hoyosa(a)gmail.com >> >> ######################################################################## >> >> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: >> http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 >> > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Shaun Carlson

That's an excellant point Andrew and a great example. It certainly makes the case for considering continuing the current model. Again, it comes down to evaluating costs. Jay's model seems to indicate that the non-recurring fees are the largest part of this model. It's also fair to assume this gear will be in service for more than one year. s *Shaun Carlson *Senior Network Engineer | Arvig ph: (218) 346-8673 | contact: protocol.by/scarlson em: shaun.carlson(a)arvig.com On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Andrew Hoyos <hoyosa(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 23, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: > > Obviously others here are members of more than just MICE, would some care > > to share the structure of other IX's? maybe that helps us guide our > model? > > So I might be in the minority here, but I don't see the need to charge > recurring fees, especially with the level of community > involvement/donations we have seen with MICE. > > This model has worked just fine for SIX ( > http://www.seattleix.net/intro.htm) and they are operating on a MUCH > larger scale. > > SFP = cost of GigE port > SFP + $5k = cost of 10GigE port > > And no shortage of contributors: http://www.seattleix.net/contrib.htm > > -- > Andrew Hoyos > hoyosa(a)gmail.com > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Andrew Hoyos

On Jul 23, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: > Obviously others here are members of more than just MICE, would some care > to share the structure of other IX's? maybe that helps us guide our model? So I might be in the minority here, but I don't see the need to charge recurring fees, especially with the level of community involvement/donations we have seen with MICE. This model has worked just fine for SIX (http://www.seattleix.net/intro.htm) and they are operating on a MUCH larger scale. SFP = cost of GigE port SFP + $5k = cost of 10GigE port And no shortage of contributors: http://www.seattleix.net/contrib.htm -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Mike Bushard, Jr

If your using the full port that's correct. But who is using the full port capacity? The graphs show no one on a 10gig port is over 1Gig in the past 24 hours other than Akamai. If I look at it from Arvig's costs proposed at $200/mo for a 1gig plus the copper cross connect of $100/mo and our peak of 550meg that comes out to 55 cents a meg (300/550). I can add more bandwidth to our 10GigE upstreams without adding cross connect fees. So it's all in how much data is passed. The more Content networks we can add the better the value and the only real way I see the exchange growing over the long term. Maybe I'm short sighted, but I think the root of our upgrades and charges discussion needs to come down to growth of content network members and for that I am sure we need more eyeballs. Obviously others here are members of more than just MICE, would some care to share the structure of other IX's? maybe that helps us guide our model? Mike Bushard, Jr | Network Engineer IV | Arvig -----Original Message----- From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Jay Hanke Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:20 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Juniper Upgrade > I think you have to consider what bandwidth can be had for today at > 511, and that is sub $1/meg. If the cost of the port plus cross > connect exceeds what a member can buy bandwidth for it may be hard to justify being a member. Cross connects being the same for transit and peering. MICE Pricing 10000 Mb/s for $750= $0.075 per mb/s 1000 Mb/s for $200= $0.20 per mb/s jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Jay Hanke

>> Cross connects being the same for transit and peering. >> >> MICE Pricing >> >> 10000 Mb/s for $750= $0.075 per mb/s >> 1000 Mb/s for $200= $0.20 per mb/s > > That's assuming you're doing a full GigE on MICE. > > For smaller folks, who are only doing 25-50-100mbps on the exchange, this quickly exceeds the price of transit. Most of the "good" deals on transit I've seen are at least 1000 mb/s commits. I haven't seen 100mb rates drop to the levels above. BTW, I wasn't advocating the pricing. I wanted to show that even the higher rates were still plausible when compared to transit. Jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Andrew Hoyos

On Jul 23, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Jay Hanke wrote: >> I think you have to consider what bandwidth can be had for today at 511, and >> that is sub $1/meg. If the cost of the port plus cross connect exceeds what >> a member can buy bandwidth for it may be hard to justify being a member. > > Cross connects being the same for transit and peering. > > MICE Pricing > > 10000 Mb/s for $750= $0.075 per mb/s > 1000 Mb/s for $200= $0.20 per mb/s That's assuming you're doing a full GigE on MICE. For smaller folks, who are only doing 25-50-100mbps on the exchange, this quickly exceeds the price of transit. -- Andrew Hoyos hoyosa(a)gmail.com ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Port Fees Model

by Reid Fishler

No, its a sailboat. We only ride during wind. Reid On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Jay Hanke <jayhanke(a)mankatonetworks.net>wrote: > On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > > And my yacht. I need money for my yacht. > > Is that the electric powered "Hurricane"? ;) > > Jay > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > -- Reid Fishler Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Port Fees Model

by Jay Hanke

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > And my yacht. I need money for my yacht. Is that the electric powered "Hurricane"? ;) Jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Port Fees Model

by Jay Hanke

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Reid Fishler <rfishler(a)he.net> wrote: > How about legal fees? Give me a # and I'll pop it in. Jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012

Re: Juniper Upgrade

by Mike Horwath

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 02:07:14PM -0500, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: > >In my book I would probably like to see more in the $150-200/month GigE and > >$500-750/range for 10GE ports, but would rather see the Exchange charge > >higher for the first couple of years and lower it later if >revenue is more > >than is needed after there is some actual track record of costs, needed to > >fully run this correctly and not simply on the cheap. > > I think you have to consider what bandwidth can be had for today at 511, and > that is sub $1/meg. If the cost of the port plus cross connect exceeds what > a member can buy bandwidth for it may be hard to justify being a member. I still like the $75 for 1Gbps ports and $200 for 10Gbps ports myself but I can convinced to make them higher. Jay already responded with the price per Mbps using the higher costs above. -- Mike Horwath ipHouse - Welcome home! drechsau(a)iphouse.net The universe is an island, surrounded by whatever it is that surrounds universes. - Berkeley Fortune ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

July 23, 2012