October 2011 - mice-discuss - lists.micemn.net

Re: MICE Port Fees

by Mike Horwath

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 06:08:22PM -0500, Eric Crist wrote: > Is there some sort of board or hierarchy within MICE now? Perhaps > running it with a board elected by members (annual membership > dues??) who can then 'take ownership' for their term of some things. > This would help alleviate burn-out of contributing members, and > encourage folks to participate and have a somewhat 'static' role in > the organization. There are 3 of us on the steering committee. I don't know if Jay ever put together an official board for the non-profit. Jay? Jay, Reid, myself are the steering committee today. -- Mike Horwath ipHouse - Welcome home! drechsau(a)iphouse.net The universe is an island, surrounded by whatever it is that surrounds universes. - Berkeley Fortune ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 13, 2011

Re: MICE Port Fees

by Matthew Beckwell

+1 Never under-estimate the power of free. "Billing" has it's own overhead, which is probably more trouble than it's worth for small, frequent amounts. ~Matthew On Oct 12, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Steve Howard wrote: > MICE is still a very small exchange. I am concerned that fees may > discourage new members. ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 13, 2011

Re: MICE Port Fees

by Steve Howard

On 10/12/2011 03:30 PM, Jay Hanke wrote: > I'd like to hear discussion on charging initial and upgrade one time > fees to MICE members needing additional or new ports on the main switch. > > Perhaps something like: > 1G $250 (+optic) > 10G $1500 (+optic) > > We would use the money to operate the exchange. > MICE is still a very small exchange. I am concerned that fees may discourage new members. I think that it is easy to encourage people to join when it is free. When it costs money things get harder. When it costs money on a recurring basis, it gets even harder still. Small one-time fees don't seem unreasonable to me. Have we ever had problems getting donations? Are we trying to fix something that isn't broken. The end result could be that we end up with fewer members which results in less value for everybody. Steve ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 12, 2011

Re: Participants List Web Page

by Mike Tindle

> Is Hurricane Electric still planning to upgrade to 10Gig? I see they > have both 1Gig and 10Gig ports assigned. Yep, we're working on it. Hopefully moved to 10g in a few days here. Mike On Oct 12, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Richard Laager wrote: > The participants.html web page is out-of-date. Given this is a > volunteer-run exchange, I've done a bunch of updating work myself. (See > the attachment.) I believe I have everything current and complete, > except as noted below. > > This originally started because I wanted looking glass addresses listed. > I've since changed my thinking on that. If you list a looking glass in > your peeringdb.com entry, bgp.he.net (to which we already link) picks > that up automatically. This saves us from having to maintain that data > on the MICE participants page. > > Accordingly, I'd like to urge Visi to create a peeringdb.com record and > list their Looking Glass URL. (No shaming implied... I don't have a > looking glass running... yet.) > > Should the MICE AS have a peeringdb.com entry? We could list the route > server there, for the same reason. > > Is there value in linking to the respective peeringdb.com links? If so, > should the anchor text be the carrier's name, or a new column? > > We are still missing contacts for these networks: > South Dakota Networks > Dakota Carrier Network > Northern Lights GigaPoP > Compudyne > MyTelepath > Genesis Wireless/RevNetData > Jaguar Communications > NU Telecom > > Dakota Carrier Network was assigned two IPv4 addresses, but only one > IPv6 address. I assume the IPv6 assignment was an oversight. > > Is Hurricane Electric still planning to upgrade to 10Gig? I see they > have both 1Gig and 10Gig ports assigned. > > Richard > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > <participants.html> *----------- H U R R I C A N E - E L E C T R I C ---------->> | Mike Tindle | Network Engineer | mtindle(a)he.net | ASN 6939 | http://www.he.net | 510-580-4126 *---------------------------------------------------->> ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 12, 2011

Re: MICE Port Fees

by Eric Crist

Is there some sort of board or hierarchy within MICE now? Perhaps running it with a board elected by members (annual membership dues??) who can then 'take ownership' for their term of some things. This would help alleviate burn-out of contributing members, and encourage folks to participate and have a somewhat 'static' role in the organization. Having a board would also allow for positions such as Treasurer, VP, and President who could help steer things in an organized way. What's been going on thus far has worked, but it seems apparent MICE is growing and beginning to have some growing pains, even if only in terms of donated time/resources running out. Having a treasurer that can report on current expenses, upcoming expenses, and account balances would also help keep tabs on resources. As Richard suggested, labor could always expect to be donated. Other associations I'm a member of operate in a similar manner and have proved successful. The hardest part in the long-run is getting people to participate. Maybe annual membership dues and a rotating list of donated time. (Company X and company Y installed the switches, next on the list is company Z.) Just my 2¢. --- Eric F Crist System Administrator ClaimLynx, Inc (952) 593-5969 x2301 On Oct 12, 2011, at 17:57:38, Richard Laager wrote: > On Wed, 2011-10-12 at 17:19 -0500, Jeremy Lumby wrote: >> Since all of the MICE expenses are recurring in nature, would it make >> more sense to have smaller fees, however make them monthly for all >> members? > > I think it would be wise to start with a list of expenses, including the > frequency and amount. That should make it easy to develop the recurring > and/or non-recurring fees to charge members. It will also provide > transparency, versus just (appearing to be) pulling numbers out of the > air. > >> I know that the labor in lieu of fees could get complicated > > I would recommend assuming all labor will be donated. That can be > revisited later, if needed, but focusing on only cash outflows will keep > the complexity to a minimum. > > Does the MICE LLC have non-profit status with the relevant government > agencies? > > Richard > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 12, 2011

Re: MICE Port Fees

by Richard Laager

On Wed, 2011-10-12 at 17:19 -0500, Jeremy Lumby wrote: > Since all of the MICE expenses are recurring in nature, would it make > more sense to have smaller fees, however make them monthly for all > members? I think it would be wise to start with a list of expenses, including the frequency and amount. That should make it easy to develop the recurring and/or non-recurring fees to charge members. It will also provide transparency, versus just (appearing to be) pulling numbers out of the air. > I know that the labor in lieu of fees could get complicated I would recommend assuming all labor will be donated. That can be revisited later, if needed, but focusing on only cash outflows will keep the complexity to a minimum. Does the MICE LLC have non-profit status with the relevant government agencies? Richard ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 12, 2011

MICE Port Fees

by Jeremy Lumby

Since all of the MICE expenses are recurring in nature, would it make more sense to have smaller fees, however make them monthly for all members? Something like $25/month for 1 Gig and $100/mo for 10Gig plus the one time cost of optics. If members do not want to take on these fees, they could possibly do some kind of donation of time, such as doing port moves/adds/changes. I know that the labor in lieu of fees could get complicated, and some limits would need to be set (such as if a bunch of people wanted to do it, they would only be able to do so for a limited amount of time to allow others to have a chance as well). I can foresee a time when the recurring funds will need to be built up to purchase additional switches, pay for IP blocks directly from ARIN, and replace failed/old switches/route servers. I know that the donation of space, and power from FWR had a time limit on it, and those recurring costs will be coming up as well. I feel now is the time to plan ahead/save up some extra money so when those donations run out the exchange will not hit a brick wall with members that would be sticker shocked by how much it would take to keep it going. I think a little bit from every member over the years will add up to quite a bit by the time that some major expenses hit the exchange. By that point in time, I think small adjustments if any in the monthly fee would be much easier to swallow for the members. I think that anyone that realizes the value of the exchange would gladly pay to stay connected. I am sure that the recurring fees would never need to be more than the cost of the cross connect which we are already gladly paying for, and the more people that join, the higher the value of the exchange, and the smaller the cost on a per member basis. I do not think that the marketing of the exchange needs to be that it is of little to no cost, I believe it can be marketed as us sharing our knowledge of the benefits of the exchange with potential members, as well as making sure that they realize that the exchange exists. From: MICE Discuss [mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET] On Behalf Of Jay Hanke Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:45 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS(a)LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Port Fees What is the funding model of the exchange now? I go around and beg for donations whenever something pops up. (Thanks again for the annual ARIN fees BTW) That was fine when it was a couple of ISPs and a switch but the exchange is quickly becoming a critical piece of infrastructure for the region. Thanks, Jay To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 12, 2011

Participants List Web Page

by Richard Laager

The participants.html web page is out-of-date. Given this is a volunteer-run exchange, I've done a bunch of updating work myself. (See the attachment.) I believe I have everything current and complete, except as noted below. This originally started because I wanted looking glass addresses listed. I've since changed my thinking on that. If you list a looking glass in your peeringdb.com entry, bgp.he.net (to which we already link) picks that up automatically. This saves us from having to maintain that data on the MICE participants page. Accordingly, I'd like to urge Visi to create a peeringdb.com record and list their Looking Glass URL. (No shaming implied... I don't have a looking glass running... yet.) Should the MICE AS have a peeringdb.com entry? We could list the route server there, for the same reason. Is there value in linking to the respective peeringdb.com links? If so, should the anchor text be the carrier's name, or a new column? We are still missing contacts for these networks: South Dakota Networks Dakota Carrier Network Northern Lights GigaPoP Compudyne MyTelepath Genesis Wireless/RevNetData Jaguar Communications NU Telecom Dakota Carrier Network was assigned two IPv4 addresses, but only one IPv6 address. I assume the IPv6 assignment was an oversight. Is Hurricane Electric still planning to upgrade to 10Gig? I see they have both 1Gig and 10Gig ports assigned. Richard ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 12, 2011

Re: MICE Port Fees

by Jay Hanke

> > > What is the funding model of the exchange now? > I go around and beg for donations whenever something pops up. (Thanks again for the annual ARIN fees BTW) That was fine when it was a couple of ISPs and a switch but the exchange is quickly becoming a critical piece of infrastructure for the region. Thanks, Jay ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 12, 2011

Re: MICE Port Fees

by Owen DeLong

I believe so far, the funding model has been corporate and personal largess. Said funding model does not scale and I think the fees proposed are quite reasonable. I say this personally. I have not yet discussed the matter with my colleagues at HE. Owen Sent from my iPad On Oct 12, 2011, at 16:32, "Hannigan, Martin" <marty(a)AKAMAI.COM> wrote: > > > What is the funding model of the exchange now? > > Best, > > -M< > > > > > On 10/12/11 4:30 PM, "Jay Hanke" <jayhanke(a)MANKATONETWORKS.NET> wrote: > > I'd like to hear discussion on charging initial and upgrade one time fees to MICE members needing additional or new ports on the main switch. > > Perhaps something like: > 1G $250 (+optic) > 10G $1500 (+optic) > > We would use the money to operate the exchange. > > Jay > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 > > > > > To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: > http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1

Oct. 12, 2011