Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here? -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net> To: members@seattleix.net FYI from Google... Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Dear Internet Exchange, As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks. We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so. Sincerely, Google Network Operations
I believe its internet-wide. Reid On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 3:32 PM Richard Laager <rlaager@wiktel.com> wrote:
I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here? -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net> <ccaputo@seattleix.net> To: members@seattleix.net
FYI from Google...
Chris
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com> <peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
Dear Internet Exchange,
As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks.
We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering
We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so.
Sincerely, Google Network Operations
------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
-- Reid Fishler Senior Director Hurricane Electric +1-510-580-4178
They did it to MICE back in December From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here? -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo <mailto:ccaputo@seattleix.net> <ccaputo@seattleix.net> To: members@seattleix.net <mailto:members@seattleix.net> FYI from Google... Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <mailto:peering-ops@google.com> <peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net <mailto:info@seattleix.net> Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Dear Internet Exchange, As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks. We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so. Sincerely, Google Network Operations _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1
Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM> Reply-To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX They did it to MICE back in December From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here? -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net><mailto:ccaputo@seattleix.net> To: members@seattleix.net<mailto:members@seattleix.net> FYI from Google... Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com><mailto:peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net<mailto:info@seattleix.net> Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Dear Internet Exchange, As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks. We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so. Sincerely, Google Network Operations ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
I am glad this got re-raised for visibility. I apparently missed it. Thanks for the link to establish bilateral sessions. It's hard to contemplate how Google still keeps their MICE pipes near-maxed 90% of the time, knowing that we can't be the only one that missed this change. I am sure Google has their reasons for not expanding their MICE capacity, although it seems strange to me in a vacuum. Corey On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:42 PM Anthony Anderberg < AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net> wrote:
Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so.
*From: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM> *Reply-To: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Date: *Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM *To: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Subject: *Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
They did it to MICE back in December
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> * On Behalf Of *Richard Laager *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here?
-------- Forwarded Message --------
*Subject: *
Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd)
*Date: *
Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC)
*From: *
Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net> <ccaputo@seattleix.net>
*To: *
members@seattleix.net
FYI from Google...
Chris
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com> <peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
Dear Internet Exchange,
As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks.
We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering
We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so.
Sincerely, Google Network Operations
------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
They want some of us to pay for our own transport to Chicago. Ben Wiechman Director of Network Strategy and Engineering 320.247.3224 | ben.wiechman@arvig.com Arvig | 224 East Main Street | Melrose, MN 56352 | arvig.com On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 4:40 PM Corey Hauer <coreyhauer@gmail.com> wrote:
I am glad this got re-raised for visibility. I apparently missed it. Thanks for the link to establish bilateral sessions.
It's hard to contemplate how Google still keeps their MICE pipes near-maxed 90% of the time, knowing that we can't be the only one that missed this change. I am sure Google has their reasons for not expanding their MICE capacity, although it seems strange to me in a vacuum.
Corey
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:42 PM Anthony Anderberg < AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net> wrote:
Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so.
*From: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM> *Reply-To: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Date: *Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM *To: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Subject: *Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
They did it to MICE back in December
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> * On Behalf Of *Richard Laager *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here?
-------- Forwarded Message --------
*Subject: *
Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd)
*Date: *
Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC)
*From: *
Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net> <ccaputo@seattleix.net>
*To: *
members@seattleix.net
FYI from Google...
Chris
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com> <peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
Dear Internet Exchange,
As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks.
We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering
We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so.
Sincerely, Google Network Operations
------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
Ah yes, the “congratulations you qualify to spend your money to make our life easier” emails… know them well. :-) Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2024, at 7:29 PM, Ben Wiechman <0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net> wrote: They want some of us to pay for our own transport to Chicago. Ben Wiechman Director of Network Strategy and Engineering 320.247.3224 | ben.wiechman@arvig.com<mailto:ben.wiechman@arvig.com> Arvig | 224 East Main Street | Melrose, MN 56352 | arvig.com<http://arvig.com> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 4:40 PM Corey Hauer <coreyhauer@gmail.com<mailto:coreyhauer@gmail.com>> wrote: I am glad this got re-raised for visibility. I apparently missed it. Thanks for the link to establish bilateral sessions. It's hard to contemplate how Google still keeps their MICE pipes near-maxed 90% of the time, knowing that we can't be the only one that missed this change. I am sure Google has their reasons for not expanding their MICE capacity, although it seems strange to me in a vacuum. Corey On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:42 PM Anthony Anderberg <AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net<mailto:AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net>> wrote: Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM<mailto:jlumby@MNVOIP.COM>> Reply-To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX They did it to MICE back in December From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here? -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net><mailto:ccaputo@seattleix.net> To: members@seattleix.net<mailto:members@seattleix.net> FYI from Google... Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com><mailto:peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net<mailto:info@seattleix.net> Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Dear Internet Exchange, As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks. We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so. Sincerely, Google Network Operations ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
What bothers me the most is Google has a habit of always saying that Minneapolis is a small market, and they cannot justify building out a node here. However every intermediate thing that they do fills to capacity shortly after they turn it up, so it definitely does not match their perception of the local market. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Anthony Anderberg Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:13 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Ah yes, the “congratulations you qualify to spend your money to make our life easier” emails… know them well. :-) Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2024, at 7:29 PM, Ben Wiechman <0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net <mailto:0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net> > wrote: They want some of us to pay for our own transport to Chicago. Ben Wiechman Director of Network Strategy and Engineering 320.247.3224 | ben.wiechman@arvig.com <mailto:ben.wiechman@arvig.com> Arvig | 224 East Main Street | Melrose, MN 56352 | arvig.com <http://arvig.com> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 4:40 PM Corey Hauer <coreyhauer@gmail.com <mailto:coreyhauer@gmail.com> > wrote: I am glad this got re-raised for visibility. I apparently missed it. Thanks for the link to establish bilateral sessions. It's hard to contemplate how Google still keeps their MICE pipes near-maxed 90% of the time, knowing that we can't be the only one that missed this change. I am sure Google has their reasons for not expanding their MICE capacity, although it seems strange to me in a vacuum. Corey On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:42 PM Anthony Anderberg <AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net <mailto:AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net> > wrote: Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET <mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> > on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM <mailto:jlumby@MNVOIP.COM> > Reply-To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET <mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> > Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET <mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> > Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX They did it to MICE back in December From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET <mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> > On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET <mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here? -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo <mailto:ccaputo@seattleix.net> <ccaputo@seattleix.net> To: members@seattleix.net <mailto:members@seattleix.net> FYI from Google... Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <mailto:peering-ops@google.com> <peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net <mailto:info@seattleix.net> Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Dear Internet Exchange, As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks. We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so. Sincerely, Google Network Operations _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1 _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1 _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1 _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1 _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1 _____ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1> &A=1
While 200G isn’t small to us, it is very small to them. That’s one middle size PNI peer for them in the Chicago market. AS3128 was affected by the Google MICE IX depeering and while I didn’t like it, they did provide us an alternative in the Minneapolis area that we decided to decline. -Michael From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Jeremy Lumby Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:18 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX What bothers me the most is Google has a habit of always saying that Minneapolis is a small market, and they cannot justify building out a node here. However every intermediate thing that they do fills to capacity shortly after they turn it up, so it definitely does not match their perception of the local market. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> On Behalf Of Anthony Anderberg Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:13 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Ah yes, the “congratulations you qualify to spend your money to make our life easier” emails… know them well. :-) Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2024, at 7:29 PM, Ben Wiechman <0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net<mailto:0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net>> wrote: They want some of us to pay for our own transport to Chicago. Ben Wiechman Director of Network Strategy and Engineering 320.247.3224 | ben.wiechman@arvig.com<mailto:ben.wiechman@arvig.com> Arvig | 224 East Main Street | Melrose, MN 56352 | arvig.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/arvig.com__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7kcgN6R7g$> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 4:40 PM Corey Hauer <coreyhauer@gmail.com<mailto:coreyhauer@gmail.com>> wrote: I am glad this got re-raised for visibility. I apparently missed it. Thanks for the link to establish bilateral sessions. It's hard to contemplate how Google still keeps their MICE pipes near-maxed 90% of the time, knowing that we can't be the only one that missed this change. I am sure Google has their reasons for not expanding their MICE capacity, although it seems strange to me in a vacuum. Corey On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:42 PM Anthony Anderberg <AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net<mailto:AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net>> wrote: Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM<mailto:jlumby@MNVOIP.COM>> Reply-To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX They did it to MICE back in December From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here? -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net><mailto:ccaputo@seattleix.net> To: members@seattleix.net<mailto:members@seattleix.net> FYI from Google... Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com><mailto:peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net<mailto:info@seattleix.net> Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Dear Internet Exchange, As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks. We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/isp.google.com/iwantpeering__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7mQuK32tw$> We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so. Sincerely, Google Network Operations ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$>
Does anyone besides me think there is more to this than Minneapolis being a small market? Could they be enticed to the other peering core to solve this issue? Dean From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> On Behalf Of Michael Hare Sent: Friday, April 5, 2024 8:04 AM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX While 200G isn’t small to us, it is very small to them. That’s one middle size PNI peer for them in the Chicago market. AS3128 was affected by the Google MICE IX depeering and while I didn’t like it, they did provide us an alternative in the Minneapolis area that we decided to decline. -Michael From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> On Behalf Of Jeremy Lumby Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:18 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX What bothers me the most is Google has a habit of always saying that Minneapolis is a small market, and they cannot justify building out a node here. However every intermediate thing that they do fills to capacity shortly after they turn it up, so it definitely does not match their perception of the local market. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> On Behalf Of Anthony Anderberg Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:13 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Ah yes, the “congratulations you qualify to spend your money to make our life easier” emails… know them well. :-) Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2024, at 7:29 PM, Ben Wiechman <0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net<mailto:0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net>> wrote: They want some of us to pay for our own transport to Chicago. Ben Wiechman Director of Network Strategy and Engineering 320.247.3224 | ben.wiechman@arvig.com<mailto:ben.wiechman@arvig.com> Arvig | 224 East Main Street | Melrose, MN 56352 | arvig.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/arvig.com__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7kcgN6R7g$> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 4:40 PM Corey Hauer <coreyhauer@gmail.com<mailto:coreyhauer@gmail.com>> wrote: I am glad this got re-raised for visibility. I apparently missed it. Thanks for the link to establish bilateral sessions. It's hard to contemplate how Google still keeps their MICE pipes near-maxed 90% of the time, knowing that we can't be the only one that missed this change. I am sure Google has their reasons for not expanding their MICE capacity, although it seems strange to me in a vacuum. Corey On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:42 PM Anthony Anderberg <AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net<mailto:AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net>> wrote: Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so. From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM<mailto:jlumby@MNVOIP.COM>> Reply-To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM To: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX They did it to MICE back in December From: MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET>> On Behalf Of Richard Laager Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM To: MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET<mailto:MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> Subject: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here? -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net><mailto:ccaputo@seattleix.net> To: members@seattleix.net<mailto:members@seattleix.net> FYI from Google... Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com><mailto:peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net<mailto:info@seattleix.net> Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX Dear Internet Exchange, As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks. We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/isp.google.com/iwantpeering__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7mQuK32tw$> We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so. Sincerely, Google Network Operations ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7nQMrm_Zw$> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link: http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1
I don't think MSP is a small market. MICE (by participants) is the 13th largest in the US and Cologix is packed with networks and ~57th globally. There is at least another order of magnitude of traffic on PNI links in the market vs MICE in MSP. The large CDN networks are doing terabits of traffic in MSP. On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 8:14 AM Dean Bahls <dean.bahls@fiberminnesota.com> wrote:
Does anyone besides me think there is more to this than Minneapolis being a small market? Could they be enticed to the other peering core to solve this issue?
Dean
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> * On Behalf Of *Michael Hare *Sent:* Friday, April 5, 2024 8:04 AM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
While 200G isn’t small to us, it is very small to them. That’s one middle size PNI peer for them in the Chicago market.
AS3128 was affected by the Google MICE IX depeering and while I didn’t like it, they did provide us an alternative in the Minneapolis area that we decided to decline.
-Michael
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Lumby *Sent:* Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:18 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
What bothers me the most is Google has a habit of always saying that Minneapolis is a small market, and they cannot justify building out a node here. However every intermediate thing that they do fills to capacity shortly after they turn it up, so it definitely does not match their perception of the local market.
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Anthony Anderberg *Sent:* Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:13 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
Ah yes, the “congratulations you qualify to spend your money to make our life easier” emails… know them well. :-)
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 3, 2024, at 7:29 PM, Ben Wiechman < 0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net> wrote:
They want some of us to pay for our own transport to Chicago.
*Ben Wiechman*
Director of Network Strategy and Engineering
320.247.3224 | ben.wiechman@arvig.com
Arvig | 224 East Main Street | Melrose, MN 56352 | arvig.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/arvig.com__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7kcgN6R7g$>
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 4:40 PM Corey Hauer <coreyhauer@gmail.com> wrote:
I am glad this got re-raised for visibility. I apparently missed it. Thanks for the link to establish bilateral sessions.
It's hard to contemplate how Google still keeps their MICE pipes near-maxed 90% of the time, knowing that we can't be the only one that missed this change. I am sure Google has their reasons for not expanding their MICE capacity, although it seems strange to me in a vacuum.
Corey
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:42 PM Anthony Anderberg < AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net> wrote:
Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so.
*From: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM> *Reply-To: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Date: *Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM *To: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Subject: *Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
They did it to MICE back in December
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Richard Laager *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here?
-------- Forwarded Message --------
*Subject: *
Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd)
*Date: *
Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC)
*From: *
Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net> <ccaputo@seattleix.net>
*To: *
members@seattleix.net
FYI from Google...
Chris
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com> <peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
Dear Internet Exchange,
As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks.
We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/isp.google.com/iwantpeering__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7mQuK32tw$>
We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so.
Sincerely, Google Network Operations
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My understanding is that AWS and Microsoft have deployed Peering Routers and backbone capacity here in the Twin Cities. However, Google back-hauls our peering to its Chicago Peering Routers. While I'm disappointed by this, we have to remember Google was the first Cloud provider to interconnect to MICE, and they were critical to our early growth. While I encourage Google to deploy Peering Routers and backbone capacity here in the Twin Cities, they have to do this on their own timetable. Nevertheless, because of their early participation in MICE, I refuse to criticize Google too harshly and trust they will eventually deploy Peering Routers and backbone capacity here in the Twin Cities. Thanks. On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 8:32 AM Jay Hanke < 0000001ddf7fafbb-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net> wrote:
I don't think MSP is a small market. MICE (by participants) is the 13th largest in the US and Cologix is packed with networks and ~57th globally.
There is at least another order of magnitude of traffic on PNI links in the market vs MICE in MSP. The large CDN networks are doing terabits of traffic in MSP.
On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 8:14 AM Dean Bahls <dean.bahls@fiberminnesota.com> wrote:
Does anyone besides me think there is more to this than Minneapolis being a small market? Could they be enticed to the other peering core to solve this issue?
Dean
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> * On Behalf Of *Michael Hare *Sent:* Friday, April 5, 2024 8:04 AM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
While 200G isn’t small to us, it is very small to them. That’s one middle size PNI peer for them in the Chicago market.
AS3128 was affected by the Google MICE IX depeering and while I didn’t like it, they did provide us an alternative in the Minneapolis area that we decided to decline.
-Michael
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Lumby *Sent:* Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:18 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
What bothers me the most is Google has a habit of always saying that Minneapolis is a small market, and they cannot justify building out a node here. However every intermediate thing that they do fills to capacity shortly after they turn it up, so it definitely does not match their perception of the local market.
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Anthony Anderberg *Sent:* Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:13 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
Ah yes, the “congratulations you qualify to spend your money to make our life easier” emails… know them well. :-)
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 3, 2024, at 7:29 PM, Ben Wiechman < 0000001a026a3d65-dmarc-request@lists.iphouse.net> wrote:
They want some of us to pay for our own transport to Chicago.
*Ben Wiechman*
Director of Network Strategy and Engineering
320.247.3224 | ben.wiechman@arvig.com
Arvig | 224 East Main Street | Melrose, MN 56352 | arvig.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/arvig.com__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7kcgN6R7g$>
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 4:40 PM Corey Hauer <coreyhauer@gmail.com> wrote:
I am glad this got re-raised for visibility. I apparently missed it. Thanks for the link to establish bilateral sessions.
It's hard to contemplate how Google still keeps their MICE pipes near-maxed 90% of the time, knowing that we can't be the only one that missed this change. I am sure Google has their reasons for not expanding their MICE capacity, although it seems strange to me in a vacuum.
Corey
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:42 PM Anthony Anderberg < AnthonyAnderberg@nuvera.net> wrote:
Yes, in last fall’s meeting we reminded everyone that they needed to create bilateral sessions with Google right away if they hadn’t already done so.
*From: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> on behalf of Jeremy Lumby <jlumby@MNVOIP.COM> *Reply-To: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Date: *Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:38 PM *To: *MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *Subject: *Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
They did it to MICE back in December
*From:* MICE Discuss <MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET> *On Behalf Of *Richard Laager *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:32 PM *To:* MICE-DISCUSS@LISTS.IPHOUSE.NET *Subject:* [MICE-DISCUSS] Fwd: Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
I haven't heard this for MICE, but presumably they will be doing the same thing here?
-------- Forwarded Message --------
*Subject: *
Google - Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX (fwd)
*Date: *
Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:31:55 +0000 (UTC)
*From: *
Chris Caputo <ccaputo@seattleix.net> <ccaputo@seattleix.net>
*To: *
members@seattleix.net
FYI from Google...
Chris
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 04:21:02 -0700 From: Google Peering Operations <peering-ops@google.com> <peering-ops@google.com> To: info@seattleix.net Subject: Drain of routes for Route-Servers in your IX
Dear Internet Exchange,
As part of Google's effort to simplify peering operations and increase routing security we have decided to stop advertising and receiving prefix information from Route-Servers in Internet Exchanges. The BGP session with the route servers will remain established. We are planning to implement the change in your IX in the next few weeks.
We won’t disconnect from the IX and we will keep current BGP bilateral sessions with individual peers on the IX. We invite other networks that rely on Route-Servers to request a bilateral session. Bilateral session request can be done at: https://isp.google.com/iwantpeering <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/isp.google.com/iwantpeering__;!!Mak6IKo!IgzwFPWYeQyvY7nRsO2KfxTMwfA9h078eF4PQVes2ulLtUvrjbjHGQA8sAmN73NQtrQXEfVla7mQuK32tw$>
We kindly request you to inform peers in your Internet Exchange of these future changes so they can request bilateral sessions with us if they desire to do so.
Sincerely, Google Network Operations
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-- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================
participants (10)
-
Anthony Anderberg -
Ben Wiechman -
Corey Hauer -
David Farmer -
Dean Bahls -
Jay Hanke -
Jeremy Lumby -
Michael Hare -
Reid Fishler -
Richard Laager